hey guys, i freaking found a new safe jump and its for SHOTO’s. i was playing a rose player earlier and i hit her with ex sky claw cross up while she was about 50% of the screen away. i jumped in immediately with jf hp and it looks exactly like izuna x fwd dash, inch back and jf hp. im not great at testing stuff so i will leave it up to u vega geniuses out there and i will try to post the vid in a couple of hours
She didn’t tech, did she ? The problem is that SHC knockdown can be quickstanded, meaning opponent would wake up far before your jump would connect. And that wouldn’t be safe anymore. But it’s worth testing I guess. And maybe we could whiff a normal to check if opponent quickstands or not.=)
I’m sure there must be somehting we can do with EX SHC KD, even if it’s not a jump. =)
thats the awsome part, it was with quick stand, imma post the vid, its in the 2nd rnd. if u see everything around it, its awsome. she crounched and didnt block so if she was standing, tried to dp, it would whiff, check it out.
[media=youtube]Gr0eP_Y-UG4[/media]
That does indeed look pretty cool. However, post EX SHC setups are way too unreliable, since the distance and the timing varies on account of how far to the corner you have and how far from the opposite wall the opponent is standing. In fact you wouldn’t be able to get that exact setup anywhere else on the stage, or with the opponent standing any further or closer to you. So, well, I suppose it’s a good thing to have if you immediately recognize the situation, but there are no general EX SHC safe jumps.
That’s interesting, it did cross-up, and it was well timed enough to catch her cHP (which is a bad idea at wake-up anyway ^^). It could be purely luck that the spacing was good, just as Golfguden said. And it could be character specific, or related to the fact she was crouching.
But it’s worth checking anyway. =)
EDIT : I checked, and it seems Golfguden was right, the spacing may be too situational to build something reliable. If you can figure out how to reproduce it consistently, maybe we could have a clue. But I the moment, from mid-screen, it whiffed everytime i tried (on Rose). =)
where is the reference for that , i never read that before anywhere, is it new with SSFIV AE or even AE2012.
to my knokwledge the jump landing sequence ( super jumps excluded viper and ibukki have strange landing logic) is as such
regular moves in air 'no matter when during the jump’
2 frames of ‘landing’ where you are grounded and can’t move dash jump block or whatever t even guard then 2 frames of trip guard where you can only guard move around or rejump.
no moves during jump
2 frames of of trip guard where you can only guard move around or rejump.
most dive kicks
0 frames of landing complete freedom of action as soon as grounded.
air special moves (flying barcelona jump, kunai, air tatsus, burn kick etc… )
specific recovery
Hi Ajuntalee, nice to see you around. 
About the frames of recovery, I’ve read this on the SRK forum, I don’t know where, and i must say that it made sense explaining why shotos can’t be safe-jumped with a regular setup (range/hitbox safe-jumps put aside).
In fact it could perfectly be 2 frames of landing, as if you have at least one active frame during you safe-jump a 3 framer would hit you during the last frame of your landing. So your explanation would make sence : last 1 active frame + 2 frame of recovery = impossible to safe-jump a reversal which first active frame is the third.
So you must be right about this point.
Now I do wonder as well if you have a reference from the regular moves recovery « no matter when during the jump». 'cause fake-jumping would be impossible if it was right, and I fake jump shotos all day long.
If you record the following setup : izuna drop, whiff cLK, jump forward late jHK with righ a timing (you must hit the dummy), and then try to reversal with 4 framers, you will block.
If you try to reversal with 3 framers with the same timing, you will get hit. As expected.
Now, with the same timing, trigger the jHK at mid-jump : you will block even 3 framers. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if the recovery was the same… you would still get hit during recovery, wouldn’t you ?
with trias and ajunta around there will be enough text to fill a book within a week
Don’t tell me you wanna be into the credits again, Vegaman ? =D
Anyway, with all the safe-jumps setups here, and Jozhear’s setups for meaties, I think this thread should be sticky. =)
To time a meaty after ex.shc after hit immediately whiff a cr.mk and do another which will be meaty.Can mixup with kara throw in place of 2nd cr.mk
Another option is after the hit whiff cr.lp > walk tiny bit > cl.mp/cl.mk
Or if you want to catch backdashes whiff cr.lp and cosmic heel but you get stuffed if the opponent wakes up with a light normal.
All these are if opponent q-stands of course, if he doesn’t time a meaty normally by their wake up animation
hey guys, im trying to fing a stand tech counter hit. im not gettin so lucky. any ideas
that sounds right,
I can think of some ways to try to explain why.
1 - there indeed some extra recovery added for late air moves. would explain the diffrence in both scenario but this contradicts with the last frame Ji.HK >> CH combo , now i haven’t tested that combo since vanilla so maybe it is no longer possible.
2 - there is a recovery for air moves and sometimes it leaks into ground frames , when the move is done late it becomes noticeable. once again would explain the diffrence in both scenario but this contradicts with the last frame Ji.HK >> CH ombo ,same reserves.
3 - there is some hitbox position inviolved, this safe jump is not frame based but hitbox based, with your leg extended during last frames of jumping you are being hit where in the first scenario you are back into regular jump position which makes the srk punchbox overlap your hitbox one frame later, and leaves you safe.
4 - same as 3 but with ghost hitboxes/ interleave hitboxes in both scenarios the last landing frames hitboxes are not the same, to transition to groundhitboxes your fisrt frames on the ground have the same vulnerability but in bothn scenario they don’t extend toward you to the same extent.
5 - stand/crouch hitbox ghosting, in the first scenario you are landing from a move, this puts you into standing stance you have shadow standing hitbox and the srk connects, in the second scenario you land from a neutral jump position you get directly into crouch stance, no ghosting, once again srk hits later during animation and leaves you safe.
6 - The other way round from regular jumping position you land in standing stance, so your hitbox is higher but extend less toward you, while in the other case you land directly with a low profile hitbox, but long forward extension, in one case the srk connects earlier on the fioorward extended hitbox, while in the other case your hitbox wraps round the evolving srk punchbox, once again you are hit later and you are safe because of that.
7 - this setup is not a frame accurate safejump, as you need to whiff a just frame cr.lp, if you are late one or two frames so is you jump and then so is your landing.
I see several ways to test things out,
A - test some combos that should connect from a last frame meaty jump in but that are impossible because of extra recovery. the probelm is, we can only prove it wrong by succeeding, but no amount of failure will prove the point being right, could be a good hint though.
B - More reliable is 60 fps frapsing and then frame by frame parsing, i did it to get impact freeze amount for everymove, no drivespace on my side to do that atm. movie will tell if setup for safe jump was made properly and detect in both case which is the exact frame where it connects.
Is there a way of getting Vega’s j.HP crossup after an EX FBA>Izuna to consistently work on Seth? I managed to get it to work once in training, but have been unable to replicate it since. I thought it worked on him, as I seem to recall Jozhear mentioning that it did at some point or another.
Dash forward, wait a split of second, then jiHP
See, that’s exactly what I’ve been doing, and I can’t get it to work on Seth. I’ve tried it on every other character that it’s possible on and manage to hit it very consistently (and easily, at that). Is there something more to it with Seth?
Or, a move who has already recovered in the air does not have recovery frames at landing, which still allows you to do the jHK CH combo (I thing I’ve hitted it once in 2012).
My execution could be questionable indeed, but with a cLK (not a cLP) I’ve almost never been owned by 4 framers moves… and I do not consider it hard to achieve consistently.
I may try if I’ve got time.
I’ll make sure to send to Vegaman a carbon copy of our first book « the mysteries of hitbox ghosting, late jump recovery and trip-guard frame at full moon while Ono is eating a cheese-burger revealed ». I’m sure it could be a best seller or something. =D
When testing, I saw the jHP « cross-up » could work on more characters than initially described (Akuma for example), but I had trouble landing it on targets supposedly easier (as dictator for instance).
A this moves relies heavily on wake-up timing and hitbox, the precise duration of the wait, and of the jHP trigger is character dependent. So you might be able to land a bit more on characters whose timing feels natural to you… but same timing would make it whiff on others. Maybe against those who were mentioned as not working it would work at only one frame of their wake-up… which is impossible to achieve consistently with a « wait a split second » setup.
Considering the risk of whiff, and the risk of landing front without the safeness of safe-jumps setups… personally I just wouldn’t use it when I could EX izuna cross-up, safe-jump or corpse-hop instead. =)
The cross up itself is unreliable. I think it’s got something to do with where the characters are on the screen, because it’s the damnedest thing. I’m not even sure if I’m getting it to cross up half the time, let alone my opponent.
There are many characters I’ve been able to get the j.HP crossup to work very consistently on (Rufus, Juri, Bison, Guy, Fei, Adon). It’s just that it seems almost impossible to nail it on Seth, lol.
This setup on seth is quite ambiquous whether or not it will be a crossup but you need to do a crouch jump after the dash for it to work .It probably gives a tiny more height so you can pass over his body and crossup him.
the main problem for all setups for me is that jumping can be reacted , even online,
So basically i have more use for a safe jump oki than a cross-up okizeme , as trias said why would i place myself in perfect position to be srk ^^ ULtra when i can izuna loop, cross over izuna, cross over FBA,
which are all much safer
or my personal favorite sit on my ass 2 paces away from the enemy doing nothing and giving him no clue on what to expect on wakeup and then throwing something that cannot be countered on reaction … or not.
I would enjoy a cross up jump in if it made us safe to reversal , but our cu.ji.HP is really ambiguous as of where to parry, but it is really obvious as to where our body hitbox is, so it is not intresting in my opinion unless it both ambiguous cross up AND beat the character’s favorite reversal move.
also if someone has a footsies setup for a cross-up jump in, then yeah I ll take that
say a sequence of moves that thrown into a block put you at cross up ji.HP distance that would be very usefull to have a way to break enemy’s guard and land a 380 combo whil he whiffed a long range poke under your jump and had no choice but block… the wrong way
generally speaking i am not a big fan of move sequences to whiff to prepare for a setup, unless those moves can be done with buffering leniency,
In my opinion a sequence of moves whiffed during enemy’s knockdown is basically a cue on what is coming next so in that case what’s coming next pretty much has to be very safe, or very rewarding or even both, or opening for a mixup between 2 alternate endings one being very safe the other being very rewarding like say:
- cross up EX.FBJ
- ambigous corpse hop
both register register as being very safe and very rewarding and open a mixup because you can basically act or not act at the very end just before enemy’s wakeup, doesn’t matter he saw you sequence he knows exactly what but he still doesn’t know if its coming or not in the end.