Ryu General Discussion Thread: Frame Data, Strategies, Combos, etc

@ deathclown: In SF4 all hadokens have the same recovery time.

lol “retards way”, its simply what its literal japanese translation is (i think)…lol “retards way”

Japanese often use english words for game mechanics, among other things. This is one example where they actually used the english word “savings”.

Wrong sir.

After a hk tatsu you’re at frame advantage by +1 and s.hk & cr.mp are fast enough to only be beaten by a 3 frame move, that’s why you never see them using it against DP chars.

Credits to Air for telling me that (L)

Sure 'bout that? Frame data says -2. The only time I seen Daigo use that S.HK was when he combos into tatsu and it crosses up in the corner, and if they quick get up he does it. Not sure how much it has to do with frames overall.

tatsu is only -2 on black. But i’m talking about on hit with a HK Tatsu combo. I assume electro means it’s +1 if they quickstand.

What does the term “SA” mean? I’ve been looking for the term everywhere and I can’t find it.

you for real?!.. it means read, search or look above. … sigh

I honestly thought that the close HK on opponents wakeup was deliberate. The close HK has an 8 frame startup but it has a huge 12 active frames. I thought Daigo was trying trying to hit the opponents wakeup move during its startup frames. If he timed his close HK correctly and used up as much of the 8 frames of startup during the opponents wakeup frames then doesnt it give him a good chance of catching opponent during startup of c.lk/c.lp/throw?

If the opponent blocks on wakeup then its only -3 on block and it pushes opponent far enough away to not be able to throw Ryu.

It never crossed my mind that he might be messing up his kara throw.

New to sf, so I wouldn’t know all the terms…

It’s probably more likely that it’s some kind of meaty set up rather than a messed up kara throw. I mean if your close enough for the cl.HK a regular throw would work fine right? After a tatsu, kara throwing someone on wakeup is kinda unlikely, I was just thinking that because he seems to use it alot otherwise.

He’s trying to point out that your question was answered a few posts above yours in this very thread, if you had looked you would have found the answer and saved yourself some time.

I think it depends on who he is doing it on, meaning which character he is fighting. If its Viper I think its deliberate because as you say the move has a ton of active frames that will out last her invincibility. I’ve also seen him use an option select on her wake up that pretty much is doing the same thing: crLK,crLP+HP.

If Viper does a reversal with invincibility the crLK will whiff then a cr.Fierce will come out next. The fierce has a lot of active frames as well.

I?m really trying to learn this game and its nuances and I?m finding myself in certain circumstances where I run out of ideas. Particularly of note is after block strings or when I get in close. At some point in every single match I end up in a crouched position in front of my opponent who is also crouched and there?s this awkward pause. At this range a cr.mp would connect but is simply blocked as my opponent is holding down-back. A cr.hk is pretty much out of the question (unless they proceed to poke with a slower recovering move and I try to counter-poke) since I can be hit by most of the cast in my recovery frames - something I learnt very early on! Doing f+mp is a little hit and miss because on reaction the opponent can score a counter-hit fairly easily due to the slow start-up of Ryu?s overhead. The only time I go for this is if I?ve pre-decided that if my hit-confirms are blocked and I think they?re gonna be crouch-teching a possible throw attempt (avoiding any pauses in my attack as I?ll just go for it). Going for a throw I feel shares the same issues as the overhead; as in you can see it coming and I usually get poked out just before reaching throw range. As I write this I?m wondering whether simply throwing a hado would be a good course of action, since at least if it?s blocked it gets a bit of chip damage and the opponent is pushed back slightly. Then again, they could just focus and punish unless I use Ex which might be a waste of meter.

Any thoughts, ideas and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Frank

Try to think about it this way dude… you have a few basic mindsets in SF. Agressive (dudes gonna hit you and maybe even SRK and hes taking risks), dudes gonna play safe but stick some shit out, only cautiously though (this is what Id call MID (as in mid btween agression and passive) ) and passive (dudes waiting for you to do something, doesnt wanna take chances etc).

NOw to get to your question… you have to recognise what frame of mind the opponent is in when you reach that awkward pause. Is he being a passive player, a mid or a agressive? Now then, based on this characteristic you can take quite a good guess at whats going to happen. If hes agressive hes gonna hit you, maybe with something hard like a reversal, in which case you should just walk up a tiny bit to teast him, then block and punish what he does. If hes being MID (as in he doesnt mind doing some moves when neccesary but isnt gonna do stupid shit either) Id say go for the frames. C.MP is not likely to be reversalled, its just 4 frames and leaves you at plus 2. (What you do after the C.MP is also based on mindset… is he gonna react, etc)… Finally, if at the time of the pause he is being passive, Id say throw.

Just gonna clarify the above. IMO 3 basic types (these can be subdivided to infintiy but for now say there 3 types ).

  1. Agressive (gonna take risks like hitting SRKs)
  2. MID (gonna poke and throw, do safe shit).;
  3. Passive (gonna wait for you to do something n punish)…

Agressive loses to Passive and beats mid (with timing). Mid beats passive and loses to agressive. Passive beats aggressive n loseds to Mid. Determine which mindset the opponent is in and respond accordingly.

Id say the overhead is a bit of a risk personally btw. But again its MID (from my POV) so if hes being passive youll win (unless he has great reactions, but hopefully you woulda tested that out previously in the match).

Thanks for the detailed reply DarthPaul. I never really considered the aggressiveness of my opponents but rather their ability. And since I cant really determine this quite so easily I always think they can escape whatever I do - second guessing my options. I’ve also stopped playing ranked matches since having to figure out a different opponent on the fly every match I play is making it impossible to guage my skill level and learn how to deal with different match-ups. One guy yesterday beat me once and then came up again as a ranked opponent where I managed a win. I added him because he was a Ryu player and I wanted to learn from a more experienced player but when we entered an Endless Battle my record for wins against him was 23 - 5! If I hadn’t played him outside of ranked matches I’d have no idea he wasn’t that good.

Frank

Some experimenting:

CH cl.MP xx FADC> U2 =491 dmg

CH cl.MP > cl.HP xx HP.hadoken > cr.lp> st.lp >cr.mk xx HP.hadoken > U2 = 424 dmg.

CH cl.MP xx Lvl 2 EX Focus Attack > U2 = 454 dmg

CH cl.MP > Super = 388 dmg

CH cl.MP > cr.MP > cr.HK = 220 dmg

cr.lp > cl.MP > Super = 340 dmg.

Overhead > Super = 380 dmg

Solar Plexus Strike > cl.MP > Have fun.

CH Solar Plexus Strike (1hit) > cr.HK = 190 dmg

All of this tested on Seth, so they might be char specific.

CH cl.mp XX lvl2 EX FA: Cool.
Overhead > Super: Of course only on standing.
CH SPS (1hit): I would LOVE to see a >4 frame followup to this even once in any match, serious or casual. Heh.

Other fun things that may not be well known:

far fierce links into super.
far strong cancels into super.
air hk tatsu > ground EX tatsu (in corner): IIRC, 280 dmg, 350 stun (Worth it for those cases when you connect that kind of hit from afar and don’t have meter for super. You cannot followup with anything but ultra for 3 hits, since they’re airborne before the EX tatsu.)

Quick remark: I hate how it’s so easy to follow up a Solar Plexus Strike with a Shoryuken. I never understood WHY it’s so easy that you can just mash out. As a matter of fact, it’s supposed to be a tough link (2 frames I believe).

Only today, did I think: This isn’t a link you DUMBASS, it’s a really late cancel D: Like Juri’s cl.HP (flip).

I think that’s really unfair :T You should have to link it properly.

You can both link it and cancel the last few frames. That’s correct.

I really am not sure why they did that. But eh. Even if it was only linkable, it really would not be that hard. A two frame link for a special is almost the equivalent of a 4 frame link with a normal, given the use of double tapping for that special move. In the end, it only serves to frustrate you if you want to start a focus attack right after it…since it’ll eat two bars if you do it early.

Do you have a good video you can refer me too or advice about double tapping. I really dont know how to do it.
Is there a way you can look at input and tell if you succeed double tapping.
Thx