Ryu changes in SSFIV thread

[System_1]

FADC costing Ultra meter
EX costing super meter (3 stock superbar)

that way you have other things to blow your ultra meter on and you get some inherent scaling on fadc2ultra since it, you know costs ultra

we would see a nice mix of Super’s, fadc’s. ex’s, and more reasonable ultradmg.
instead of every match is played by using super bar for ex/fadc and rellying on ultra for the big one.

its by far the best way to go imo.

[SoVi3t]

Because variable meter costs for a set meter system just doesn’t seem like it would work, and is not required to rebalance a fairly well balanced game.

I disagree with it entirely. The only EX moves that need 50% costs are ones that chain into themselves for massive damage. That would only be EX Tandem, and this conceptual EX Joudan if it worked the way I drew it up. EX Snake Strike just needs a damage reduction.

A 3 bar FADC would suck. A 1 bar FADC wouldn’t help Vega much without other fixes, and with those fixes, it’d be broken. Fix Scarlet Terror, Scarlet Terror FADC all day. FADC to EX FBA all day. it would only cost 50% meter total. The different EX costs worked well in SFIII, because of the variable SA gauge lengths and stocks. It doesn’t work so well in a game where the Super bar is a set amount and divided into 4.

It was also a big reason the SFIII games ended up so unbalanced in the first place.

Global system features like FADC having variable costs per character is just a dumb idea IMO. Why should one character have to pay more to do something everyone can do, and another less? Besides, the FADC system works well as is, why completely unbalance the system just to try to close the gaps in an already close tier list? Keep it simple.

LOL @ using most of Bison’s bar for EX Psycho Crusher. What Bison do you play with?

Bison has to keep one bar full in case he gets cornered. If not, you lose. Feel free to critique me here, but there are several characters with similar situations, where they need at least one bar to escape pain (ie-Rufus)

And the FADC system does NOT work well as is, as is evident by how much characters like Ryu and Sagat benefit from it, while some characters (mostly charge characters) rarely use it, and rarely benefit from it. I can honestly say I have never seen a Vega or Gief use FADC, whereas some characters survive off it.

I’m starting to think this may need its own thread, or else the Ryu thread could get derailed, which I apologize for…

[Nitro263]

Vega and Gief’s playstyle makes FADC not that great of an idea. Still, Banishing Flat FADC to escape punish is viable.

Ryu and Sagat benefit from FADC more than other characters only because they have decent juggles off of them. the FADC is clearly NOT the “problem”. Not like it’s a very big problem anyway. Reduce Sagat’s damage output and it’s perfectly fair. Deal with it.

EX Scissor Kick or EX Head Stomp is better than EX Psycho Crusher in nearly every application, and a well timed teleport keeps Bison from being cornered that easily.

[daklog]

You said Capcom’s not dumb enough to allow rejuggle states. I proved you wrong. Get over it.

2 ex stocks joudan kick is dumb, end of discussion

me saying capcom isn’t stupid enough to allow it in a game coming in 2010, and you saying they did in 1999… what does that prove? fucking idiot.

and about me jumping off at the mouth, this is a thread, a part of a forum, a place for the public to discuss

i’m part of the public, just like you are, so when i see some dumb ass posting about how a move will need to waste half a super bar because if not it will be overpowered because you will be able to chain it (which there is no precedent in sf4 for) then it’s up to me to come and let that dumbass know that he’s a dumbass. thank you for your time

[Coth_X]

2 ex stocks joudan kick is dumb, end of discussion

me saying capcom isn’t stupid enough to allow it in a game coming in 2010, and you saying they did in 1999… what does that prove? fucking idiot.

His point shows that they have done it before and that they could do it again.

[SoVi3t]

Vega and Gief’s playstyle makes FADC not that great of an idea.

That’s exactly my point. So why would 1 bar FADC’s not be a good thing for characters like that?

Reduce Sagat’s damage output and it’s perfectly fair. Deal with it.

I have more of a problem with his health, and his ability to take off half my health at the drop of a hat.

EX Scissor Kick or EX Head Stomp is better than EX Psycho Crusher in nearly every application, and a well timed teleport keeps Bison from being cornered that easily.

you don’t play as bison, do you lol??? Ex SK don’t get you out of the corner, nor does HS (not to mention how easy it is to deal with HS). And teleports recovery is ass…only time it’s used is to teleport backwards (reverse DP + KKK), which is useless in the corner.

His point shows that they have done it before and that they could do it again

you could also do ToD combos back then, and infinite stun combos with half the cast. Does that mean they’ll pull that out again?

[polarity]

Everyone doesn’t need to benefit equally from universal systems

[Nitro263]

His point shows that they have done it before and that they could do it again.

Thanks, but don’t bother, he clearly can’t comprehend that. Or maybe he does and just wants to bitch about it and try to shut down the conversation because he’s butthurt.

What a loser.

I still don’t see any better ideas from him, any understanding of what he’s talking about, and now he’s trying to prove his point by saying it’s dumb, like the fact he said “end of discussion” is supposed to do anything.

Yeah, daklog, good job wasting everyone’s time. You’re welcome. Though I did get a laugh watching you post like a moron and argue like a 7 year old, so I guess I should thank you for that.

Back to Ryu.

[SoVi3t]

Everyone doesn’t need to benefit equally from universal systems

certain characters shouldn’t benefit exclusively from it either

[polarity]

Personally I’m amazed that this proof of “infinite juggle states” came in the form of a 3S video - you know, the game that doesn’t have any infinites - instead of A3 or 2I which are, to my knowledge, the only SF games to feature true infinites.

[daklog]

“proof”

[Nitro263]

That’s exactly my point. So why would 1 bar FADC’s not be a good thing for characters like that?

Better question: They don’t need to FADC, so why give them that anyway?

I have more of a problem with his health, and his ability to take off half my health at the drop of a hat.

Hence, lower damage output.

you don’t play as bison, do you lol??? Ex SK don’t get you out of the corner, nor does HS (not to mention how easy it is to deal with HS). And teleports recovery is ass…only time it’s used is to teleport backwards (reverse DP + KKK), which is useless in the corner.

Actually, I do, casually. I’ve also watched high level Bison play and played with high level players, some of whom know how to play Bison. Bison’s gameplan does not include getting cornered in the first place, his meter better served saving for EX Scissor rushdown, and Scissor FADC combos and corner pressure. Also for EX Head Stomp air 2 air. Teleport doesn’t have great recovery, but so what? It’s still useful for escaping the corner at the right opportunity, and EX PC is nowhere near as good or as necessary as EX Messiah Kick.

you could also do ToD combos back then, and infinite stun combos with half the cast. Does that mean they’ll pull that out again?

Stop. Go back a few pages. Read the thread. Then you’ll understand what it meant (hopefully).

[RaveMachine]

Personally I’m amazed that this proof of “infinite juggle states” came in the form of a 3S video - you know, the game that doesn’t have any infinites - instead of A3 or 2I which are, to my knowledge, the only SF games to feature true infinites.

Oh god, alpha 3’s V-ism Karin.

Someone posted that on the SA thread, but I can’t find the video. Had all sorts of infinites for like 10 different characters.

[Nitro263]

Personally I’m amazed that this proof of “infinite juggle states” came in the form of a 3S video - you know, the game that doesn’t have any infinites - instead of A3 or 2I which are, to my knowledge, the only SF games to feature true infinites.

Yeah, I could have done crouch cancels, but I was watching that Ryu vid recently and felt like posting it. I was only showing that yeah, you have been able to “continuously put someone in a juggle state” in SF.

Edit - [media=youtube]BHZxQYpVhyc"[/media] the vid you looking for Rave?

[DominicanPower]

Seth said that characters are gonna get buffed not nerfed so the characters that need it this game will have it in this one so ryu with a new ultra and prob some minor tweaks and maybe a new move or two is going to be the same.

[RaveMachine]

Yeah, I could have done crouch cancels, but I was watching that Ryu vid recently and felt like posting it. I was only showing that yeah, you have been able to “continuously put someone in a juggle state” in SF.

Edit - [media=youtube]BHZxQYpVhyc"[/media] the vid you looking for Rave?

Yes, that one.

[media=youtube]BHZxQYpVhyc#t=6m49s[/media]

[media=youtube]BHZxQYpVhyc#t=11m32s[/media]

[media=youtube]BHZxQYpVhyc#t=17m08s[/media]

[SoVi3t]

Better question: They don’t need to FADC, so why give them that anyway?

Because maybe with 1 bar FADC’s, certain characters could find more uses. Vega’s roll could suddenly be USED. How weird would that be?

Either way, my point is proven. An ability that ONLY benefits certain characters is flawed, especially when attempting to achieve balance in the game.

Hence, lower damage output.

I noticed how wierd what i posted sounded, like five seconds before u posted this. Im not upset that Sagat can do half damage per se, more about the fact he can trade TU so easily, followed by F+HK then ultra. I hate ALL trade uppercuts. You shouldn’t be rewarded so well for getting hit, period, even if there is a slight penalty to you. How many other characters can trade into something so easily, for so much damage?

Actually, I do, casually. I’ve also watched high level Bison play and played with high level players, some of whom know how to play Bison. Bison’s gameplan does not include getting cornered in the first place, his meter better served saving for EX Scissor rushdown, and Scissor FADC combos and corner pressure. Also for EX Head Stomp air 2 air. Teleport doesn’t have great recovery, but so what? It’s still useful for escaping the corner at the right opportunity, and EX PC is nowhere near as good or as necessary as EX Messiah Kick.

I am not gonna toot my own horn, but I main bison (duh), and I am good with him. I ain’t Andre, or some of the other high ups, and I sure as hell am not godly with Street Fighter technicalities (footsies, complete 100% knowledge of each character, etc), but I sure as fuck know my Bison pretty damn well, and can fuck up most people with him.
I won’t even bother getting into Bison’s technical knowhow, as that’s more suited for the Bison threads (which I welcome you to post in, or further discussion), but you’re wrong on so many of those points. Needless to say that on paper, Bison is a great character, but most of his moves have glaring problems with I feel will be properly addressed in SSFIV, so nuff said.

Stop. Go back a few pages. Read the thread. Then you’ll understand what it meant (hopefully).

I will be honest, I’ve skipped SOOOO many posts in this thread, mainly because it’s hard to read with all the troll posts, and agreement posts and posts that pretty much state what the previous 8 posts said. I’ll look back for your posts though.

[Coth_X]

you could also do ToD combos back then, and infinite stun combos with half the cast. Does that mean they’ll pull that out again.

I didn’t say they will, just that they can.

There is a difference between probable and possible, is it possible that they could bring back ToDs sure, probable no.

Rejuggle states would only be bad if there is no limit or it leads to boring magneto type stuff. As long as it is limited so fights don’t devolve into a game of solo volleyball then everything’s cool.

Also, if this post sounds hostile it was unintended, that’s just how I talk.

[Nitro263]

Because maybe with 1 bar FADC’s, certain characters could find more uses. Vega’s roll could suddenly be USED. How weird would that be?

Either way, my point is proven. An ability that ONLY benefits certain characters is flawed, especially when attempting to achieve balance in the game.

Instead of unbalancing a universal system to do so, would it not be a more effective and controllable balance change just to fix Vega’s Rolling Crystal Flash so it can be usable? FADC benefits everyone. It’s a more integral part of some characters game than others, the same as most other universal systems.

I noticed how wierd what i posted sounded, like five seconds before u posted this. Im not upset that Sagat can do half damage per se, more about the fact he can trade TU so easily, followed by F+HK then ultra. I hate ALL trade uppercuts. You shouldn’t be rewarded so well for getting hit, period, even if there is a slight penalty to you. How many other characters can trade into something so easily, for so much damage?

Only Sagat, but I think that Trade Juggle resets in general need to be removed, which isn’t just Ryu and Sagat, but for everyone. A trade should be as close to a zero gain situation for both characters as possible.

I am not gonna toot my own horn, but I main bison (duh), and I am good with him. I ain’t Andre, or some of the other high ups, and I sure as hell am not godly with Street Fighter technicalities (footsies, complete 100% knowledge of each character, etc), but I sure as fuck know my Bison pretty damn well, and can fuck up most people with him.
I won’t even bother getting into Bison’s technical knowhow, as that’s more suited for the Bison threads (which I welcome you to post in, or further discussion), but you’re wrong on so many of those points. Needless to say that on paper, Bison is a great character, but most of his moves have glaring problems with I feel will be properly addressed in SSFIV, so nuff said.

I’ll let that be with simply I think Psycho Crusher in general sucks in SFIV, and Scissor Kick is a much better alternative in most cases.

I will be honest, I’ve skipped SOOOO many posts in this thread, mainly because it’s hard to read with all the troll posts, and agreement posts and posts that pretty much state what the previous 8 posts said. I’ll look back for your posts though.

I’ll help you.

Starts here, goes here, dumbass comes in here, leading to this, this, and finally this.

[SoVi3t]

I didn’t say they will, just that they can.

There is a difference between probable and possible, is it possible that they could bring back ToDs sure, probable no.

Rejuggle states would only be bad if there is no limit or it leads to boring magneto type stuff. As long as it is limited so fights don’t devolve into a game of solo volleyball then everything’s cool.

Also, if this post sounds hostile it was unintended, that’s just how I talk.

i look at the fact that as OP as Ryu may be at times, even his juggles arent THAT BAD. Hell, juggle > super > ultra, the ultra just stops hitting after a bit. I don’t see him being able to SRK > FADC> juggle > juggle >juggle > ultra or whatever. Man, Capcom fucks up a lot, but they still deliver overall. I have faith.

…besides, there is always Super Street Fighter 4 Turbo