Wait… hmmmmmmm… your right lol. You can be baited though.
Doesn’t matter, you are always at the risk of getting baited, yet more often than not you usually DON’T get baited, it’s just a bigger guess for them trying to bait a possible SRK than it is you mashing that SRK.
Anyone testing ryu? Seems like most character threads has a tester. ryu not being one of them. instead we argue whether his nerfs were needed or not. lol
Kind of annoying honestly. Lets just keep the discussion about super.
BTW I wonder if they chanced his fireball. Guile’s sonic booms are crazy fast now. I think he can out pressure ryu. Anyone notice a difference with ryu?
First things first, my friend wasn’t able to get the game running correctly, so we’re still working on that. The full situation on SRK, U1 damage combos, BnBs, and exactly what links to U2 and how will be the first things I work on when I get the chance. Anything new I find will come here first.
Next, here comes Fouts again. Guess he can’t take a hint the last time. Oh well, one more for the road.
You don’t pay attention. I said how RCF could have been tweaked to allow decent followups after FADC with little changes. Charge partitioning would have allowed for decent combos to Ultra like ST > FADC > Ultra. I didn’t mention anything about using both at the same time, or RCF > FADC > ST (though that would be possible). Read.
LOL, what does charge partitioning have to do with ST’s juggle state? The only way your combo is possible is if the startup on Ultra (or the first hit on BHC, in it’s case) is less than the time it takes for your opponent to fall to the ground after you recover from lk.ST. Which would be possible without charge partitioning, as you can already charge your next input while performing your last attack.
Charge Partitioning would allow Vega to hold a charge in between a FADC, which would let him ST > FADC and recover fast enough to Ultra before your opponent drops, without having to wait to charge the input. Which would cost 2 bars. Buy a clue. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
When you said that giving him the ability to link Ultra off a fucking 14 frame normal > ST > FADC would be broken. That’s tame in comparison to what almost any decent character in the game can do. Hence, it’s like you want him to suck. Dummy.
Quote it. When did I say this. I’ll save you some time. I didn’t. And considering he still has all of the benefits from the system that he used to despite his nerfs, and the only unfair things that were changed about were a few move properties, no, It’s not about him benefiting too well either. He still has all his FADC combos, and if the system is unchanged he can still mash DPs and autocorrect, with shortcuts and option selects. Like I said, buy a clue.
So my FADC examples make sense? Good, glad we’re in agreement. Is this bit you talking to yourself? Cause you haven’t said anything that shows you know anything about this game yet.
Excellent question.
Answer: Dhalsim has one of the best zoning capabilities in the game, and therefore can create a good amount of situations where he can damage his opponent. He also has a few decent mixup options in his teleport, his Ultra 1, and presumably now his Ultra 2.
If his damage output is roughly the same, and other characters are doing less damage, that could equate to him dealing more damage to his opponent on average than his opponent dealing to him. Know what happens when that happens? The character that does more damage usually wins.
Of course, I doubt the difference is all that drastic, but Sim was already a solid character, so him hitting respectively harder now can only help him in matchups.
Vega, on the other hand, sucked in nearly every respect. Subpar at creating damage opportunities, subpar in damage output per opportunity, practically free on wakeup due to the majority of his tools being bad. Considering his Ultra had almost zero setups, that particular move was almost a non-factor.
Actually, Ryu was worse off on wakeup too. There are DP safe setups, and while FADC mitigates the damage risk from playing the wakeup SRK guessing game, the game still isn’t in Ryu’s favor. Knockdown is bad for just about everybody but Akuma and Seth, as they have both teleports and DP.
And he gained st.HK cancel, As well as the ability to cancel the recovery of any hit or blocked normal with a move that raises TU damage to SFIV damage. Damage has been reduced overall (not just for him, though his was reduced more), he can still cancel the first hit of st.LK (since it’s now 2 hits), and his Stamina is 1050, not the rumored 1000. Therefore, even though his nerfs seemed more significant at first, (In fact, at first I was pretty disappointed by how heavy the nerfs seemed) turns out it’s not that bad, plus he got a few really good things to compensate. And no nerfs that heavily impacted anything about his game.
Nobody really gives a damn about Ryu losing Trade > Ultra. Good riddance. But the fact that Sagat (the main Trade > Ultra problem) Seth and Dudley still have it is hilarious, in an ironic way. In principal, Trade > anything is retarded, but in practice I really don’t care anyway. Just another thing people who cried about Ryu in SFIV will still have to cry about for somebody else in Super.
And I’m very glad you’re not balancing it, because you don’t understand much about it.
Then you fail. I used proper grammar. You quoted me using proper grammar, and then messed it up anyway. See for yourself. You must be a pretty big dumbass to miss something that obvious.
…Well, yeah. Who are you talking to? You just explained my point to you as if you were the one making it. What is it? Schizophrenia? ADD? You couldn’t have been born that stupid, you must be working on it
You called the DP property change a system change. I’m calling you an idiot.
You remember which person you are now? :looney:
Real shame. That being how stupid you make yourself look with every consecutive post :lol:
Again, you don’t remember what you say from one day to the next, lol. You said that Ryu still has EX SRK which is more than what most have. Which isn’t true, as most characters have a move to escape pressure when you include the use of meter. And no, again you don’t read. My problem isn’t so much that they nerfed Ryu’s DP priority. Unless it wasn’t a good AA anymore, which apparently isn’t the case (so I’m good with that).
My beef is that they did that, but didn’t fix what made DPs so annoying in the first place in this game. It’s like slapping a band-aid on a stab wound.
:rolleyes: When you come to a forum on a different character and try to chastise people for being concerned about negative changes to theirs. Honestly, what leg do you have to stand on other than you main Vega?
And you can’t come up with a coherent sentence. Consult your dictionary.
First of all, my stance was that not being able to reversal with it well was unnecessary. Not being able to AA with it well would have hurt his game heavily. And that they would do that but leave the engine and other character’s DP priority intact makes little sense if they really wanted a more offensive game.
CH is 14 frames. If you think that’s fast, you’re stupid. Though you’re already proved that much I guess. All the flaws you’ve pointed out were in your own arguments. Please stop wasting your time.
Because some people can’t understand why others don’t think a DP nerf will solve any problem when the problems with the engine weren’t fixed. Incidentally, some people can’t read well. What type of person are you?
Just played it. The nerfs aren’t nearly as severe as the drama police are making out. He still has all his tools minus some dp related stuff.
Still has sick normals. Easy mode safe jump setups. Ridiculous link combos. Really it’s time to stfu and stop whining because Ryu is still more than solid.
Good to know. Can you elaborate on the minus DP related stuff (Aside from the trade stuff)?
And is anything about the system at all better? (Autocorrect, mashing DP, blockstun, reversal window)
Also, did you notice anything new about him that we haven’t heard already?
All it is, like some others have said, is that the window for a traded dp is larger. Well timed dp will still anti-air. Seems like some meaty pokes will trade with it also, kind of like when you’d do a reversal lp dp against a meaty and trade. Neither are that huge. Just need to block more as you’re getting up.
I don’t think anyone will be disapointed with him. I was so bored of Ryu waiting on super to come out that I didn’t even plan on playing him. Metsu shoryu is crazy though. That ultra is so much fun. When the frame data comes out, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it’s the quickest ultra in the game(aside from the grabs). I saw it auto-correct and hit a geif crossup tonight. I punished rog’s ex upper on block with it. Couldn’t recreate it, but my buddy swears he didn’t touch a button and was blocking. Old frame data says that’s -1, so I dunno. When we were testing it, I was only able to punish a deep hp dash punch. That’s -8 and probably hasn’t changed, so it’s 8 frames at most. I’d guess it’s 6, though.
id guess 6 frames too, considering you can do it on reaction to the jump without having to buffer it in
That must mean it has less invincibility frames then? (assuming you were talking about AA’ing) Which also means they don’t last until the active frame?
I’m hearing that his strong dp is his best dp now.
I don’t know if this has been said already but…
- lk tatsu now appears safe on block. It has way less than -6 frame advantage at least.
- blocked hk tatsu will GO THROUGH and CROSS UP Ibuki by the 3rd hit. You can still crouch below the 3rd hit as normal, but damn…that was weird.
- jabs, and possibly c.mp, seem to have more total frames. You appear to get the same frame advantage on hit. But this will change the timing as well as how many jabs you can get in on somebody before a sweep. Not entirely sure about this, but something weird is going on.
I’ve had my hands on super and have been able to do a little bit of testing. It seems like the metsu shoryuken is a very good anti-air option. It doesn’t look like you can safe-jump ultra II. Even empty jumping can be risky if it is mistimed.
[media=youtube]bz3yNa2bkB0[/media]
I recorded a little bit of training mode testing to show a little bit of what I found. I’m not exactly sure why this works, but I think that if the opponent is airborne, ultra II has 1-frame start up, whereas on a grounded opponent, start up is much slower.
What do you guys think?
EDIT: Ok forget what I just said. I forgot to set the dummy to block longer to account for the ultra flash. Sorry for the confusion!
Wow…thats pretty sick
Metsu Shoryuken>Metsu Hadoken
I strongly suspected as much. It makes a lot of sense.
set your dummy to block longer due to ultra screen flash time.
D’oh, I’m stupid. Thanks for letting me know. Guess you can safe jump the metsu shoryu. My bad everyone.
Oh. Damn.
I’ve currently got access to Vanilla and Super next to eachother if anyone has any specific questions they want to ask. I can’t record or do any in-depth testing, but I can try stuff out. 
Jaie,can you try testing the viability of Ryu fierce srk versus common high priority jumpins like Balrog and M.Bison jump roundhouse and E.Honda jump strong. Also Test the different strengths of his srk on wake vs meaties like Sagat crouch fierce and Ryu crouch strong. And finally check if Ryu Metsu Shoryuken can punish point blank M.Bison roundhouse and forward scissor kicks. Thanks in advance.