81

Why u2 against cody? rocks?

Also what does ultra 2 bring to the rufus mirror?

82

U2 on rufus vs rufus matchup is good to beat EX messiah kick with no fadc. Any followup will get punished with U2. So just mash it if the situation comes up.

83

I use u2 on cody for the Rocks, and for how much people jump at me with him…

Any advice against rose? As well as guile… im just sick of trying to fight him and always failing -.-"

84

Why isnt this gettign updated? Seriously? Just about everyone else has the stuff updated. Please stop slacking and get up some suggestions for people.

85

Instead of taking U2 against Rufus, plink a close hp (so it comes out first frame you recover) into lk messiah. Close hp anti-airs Rufus out of the HK followup, the LK messiah can put you slightly closer to the other Rufus when he recovers and it can let you do a mixup on him, and counterhits the MK followup, allowing it to combo into a lk messiah. It won’t come out if Rufus does an immediate LK followup, and it loses to delayed LK followup, but both of those are high risk or high cost followups. It’s a meterless shutdown of the mixup.

86

In my experience, unless U2 will net you a punish, that you can react to, against a move that you couldn’t otherwise punish, it is not worth using U2.

Also, if they have a way to escape a properly spaced U2 used at the end of the round for chip, its not worth using U2.

So, while I agree with the use of U2 vs. Ryu/Sagat/ibuki/ken, I doubt its worth taking over U1 in most other matchups.

For Akuma/Sim/Chun/Juri my experience has been that maximizing damage while the opponent is cornered is worth much more than putting a stop to fireball zoning since these characters have such low life and hitting with U2 completely destroys whatever spacing you had before using it. Also, vs. Akuma its important to note that you can’t chip kill with U2 because he can teleport, and chipping at the end of the round is imo a primary use for this Ultra.

vs. Fei I think the only reason you’d be picking U2 is for the chip kills and nothing else…

vs. Bison I’d rather be picking U1 because the only use for U2 is after a blocked ex PC, which you can punish anyways.

vs. Viper This is a tossup, but being able to react with U2 to any burn kick is a huge plus, but then again U1 in this matchup is still as effective as ever, I’d rather take U1.

vs. Hawk/Gief The only reason I pick U2 in these matchups is for chip kills. You won’t be landing dive kicks or putting on corner pressure if the hawk/gief player knows what they’re doing, so might as well give yourself a free 5-10% room for error by taking U2 and chipping their life away at the end of the round.

vs. Vega This matchup is one of the worst in the game, and he has no answer to corner pressure and has low life. I pick U1 vs. akuma/sim/chun just cause they have low health, vs. Vega I see no reason at all for you to be picking U2. j.rh into U1 if you’re really afraid of wall dives :S Either way you should be winning this matchup.

vs. Fuerte U2 if you like to mash, still a hard matchup for fuerte.

vs. Honda U2 just isn’t worth it vs. a good honda. You want to maximize dmg and make your corner pressure more scary with U1 around. If you’re picking U2 its for countering poorly spaced neutral jump fierce, terrible headbutts (which you can punish anyways or dodge and completely destroy) and to kill with chip. If the opponent is good enough to not give you the free damage, then your U2 is reduced to a chip dmg ultra again, except honda is a character that you’ll be pressuring enough to make U1 worthwhile.

vs. Cammy Again, I don’t see the importance of U2 in this matchup. U2 isn’t going to stop her mixup game, imo its just an excuse to do wakeup ultra :S

87

You’re forgetting that U2 can punish all teleports, it’s definitely worth it in the Bison matchup.

88

In all my time playing with high level bisons, not once have they used teleport in the rufus matchup.

And if this matters at all in the discussion, Jwong vs. Andy OCR, when Wong realizes that Andy didn’t give him a single opening for U2 (other than EX PC, and even then if its not blocked at close range it won’t punish) Wong switches to U1. Its also important to remember that bison gets hit crouching by the s.lk, s.rh target combo, making U1 more effective. In addition, Bison is one of those characters that you can’t chip kill with U2 because he can TP behind you and kill you.

So, if my experience is right at all, then the only use for U2 vs. bison is to punish close range ex PC on block. If the bison knows this, all he has to do to nullify your threat of Ultra is to avoid doing ex PC at the closest range, and instead use it at ~c.mk range or wait till he sees you leave your feet to do it. Not worth it.

89

Played like 40 or 50 games against a very good akuma today, and U1 has to be picked in this match up. Once the akuma(if he’s good) knows U2, you’ll never land it. As it’s said above, you want to get maximum damage when you’re on akuma, and if you catch him close to the corner, you’ll land U1 for sure, any way.

Against Bison, I’m not sure yet, but it seems it’s going to be the same.

Actually, I think U2 will be good against Sagat, Ryu, Gief and Hawk and that’s it. U2 is good but compared to U1 setups…

90

Punishing Bison’s teleport isnt hard anyway. Meaty divekick stuffs wakeup EX PC. EX HS and DR gets him out. If he teleports, you land in time to punish. I’d rather just have U1 since it’s much easier to land a messiah -> fadc or target combo than to find a gap for U2.

Right now I’m using U2 for:

Akuma - Kills demon flips and mistimed vortex, messed up demons, fireballs, air fireballs jumping toward you, s.rk if your reactions are good.

Viper - I find it’s good here since so much of her game and mixup takes her airborn

Sim - Punishes yoga fires, teleport. DONT try to punish jump because of teleport but if he jumps and throws out a normal he’s probably fair game because of how floaty he is. Needs testing.

Fuerte - U2 completely shuts down his oki game.

Gouken - eats fireballs, focus, and demon flips. That covers the bulk of Gouken’s game right there.

Ibuki - Kills Kunai mixups

Ryu, Sagat, Seth, Hawk, and Gief for reasons that should be plenty obvious.

I havent tried it vs Juri yet but it seems good here too because its correct for her to zone you this match up. I’m unsure about Ken because he isn’t going to try to zone you for the most part and I like my chances of landing a ex messiah since he’s going to be playing more of a close-med range game with step kick and kara throw. I’m also mixed on U2 vs Guy. It’ll shut down his jump pressure and Bushin Flip shenanignas but most good Guy players will go light on the Flips and jumps and use run stop, which is safe, for pressure.

91

Sorry for taking so long to update. Everytime I sit down to set this thing up I end up just actually going to a tournament or playing. I think this is going to be the most effective way of updating the list while including everyone’s thoughts collectively.

Everyone who is familiar with a certain match-up should fill this out and submit it in this thread here for discussion:

Match-up Ratio: ex. 5/5 or 6/4
Preferred Ultra:
General Strategy: (this should include why the ultra chosen above was picked as well and do’s and don’ts)
Punishes:
Videos (only high LVL videos):

If you can only partially contribute to the above than that’s also fine (like if you can find specific videos or know about specific punishes). So to get things started we’ll start off in order and go with ABEL.

92

Match-up Ratio: 5.5/4.5 Rufus favor
Preferred Ultra: U1
General Strategy:
Don’t get caught in the Abel mix-ups without EX-Messiah. The general strategy to defeating Rufus in this match is to be aggressive Round I when Rufus doesn’t have an EX bar. When Rufus doesn’t have an EX bar Abel can successfully eliminate Rufus’ reversal options on wake-up making Abel’s mix-up game safer/dangerous. Basically, their goal is to force Rufus into the vortex and score a dizzy and end Round 1 with Rufus having little to no meter. This makes Round 2 infinitely times easier for Abel since his meter should be close to full.

With that said, Rufus should play cautious early this game and avoid getting knocked down, crossed-up, or step kicked. Rufus should be aiming to start his divekick pressure so he can start building meter i.e. not letting Abel get on the offensive.

Once Rufus divekicks Abel he has several options:
1.) Jump (usually neutral or back)
2.) Block (which loses to grab if not teched)
3.) Block option select (which loses to a redivekick)
4.) St.fierce (which beats divekicks that are angled too high, but loses to grab)
5.) Roll (which loses to grab)
6.) Command throw (which beats grab, but loses to redivekick)

So basically Rufus’ grab beats the majority of Abel’s options where a redivekick beats the other half.

Punishes:
Change of Direction: Can be interrupted at anytime with EX Messiah. Close st.fierce punishes change of directions that are stopped prematurely on block.
Wheel Kick: cr.jab -> ex. GT is your best punish here. Wheel kicks that are spaced properly cannot be punished.
TT: Normally punishable if Rufus neutral jumps or backdashes. On backdash go for the sweep knockdown. On neutral jump go for the BnB after a neutral fierce or roundhouse.

Videos (only high LVL videos): Will provide later.

93

Low forward to ex GT is possible on wheel kicks generally whenever a low jab to ex GT would be, and does slightly more damage.

94

Omni - I appreciate the attempt to get this thread crackin but it seems like a lot of the information you posted in the Abel match up general strategy section of your post is really just general strategy vs all characters. Saying “dont get knocked down or crossed up”, “ex messiah is good to get out of his pressure game”, and “you should be looking to start dive kick pressure” isn’t exactly Abel specific. And don’t forget the stuff that Diveman compiled in the other thread!

My two pesos on the match up.

-After Stepkick -> dash is a great place to reversal early in the match and until your opponent adapts because you see a lot of Stepkick, dash, FP (1f link) and Stepkick, dash, TT, mix ups.
-Breathless is very very good. Be more apt to cross Abel up on his wake up after he gets his U2. And be extra careful when applying pressure
-Lean toward throwing Abel on his wake up a bit more. He’ll want to EX roll to escape your pressure. Like Omni said, his best wake options are EX TT and EX Roll. Throw beats roll. Dive kick beats the TT.

95

I know U2 shuts down a lot of Abel’s game, but I personally feel that U1 is better choice as Abel’s main offense is his close up mix ups, which Rufus should have a higher chance of scoring a reversal ex messiah (which you can fadc into U1) than trying to punish Abel with U2.

I know Abel can ex roll through U2. So there goes the chip damage option (some chars dont have good ex reversals).

Abel would most likely choose U2 against Rufus, if so, after scoring a knockdown, never ever try to attempt a meaty j.hp when Abel has U2.

Avoid using c.hp when he has ultra (u1/u2). It’s so punishable on block.

At certain range, you can ex tornado his U2 on reaction as it’s armour breaking. It’s the same trick/range used against blanka’s u1 (I know there are better punishes for against blanka after blocking U1, this is when you cant block the chip damage).
within throw range, you can bait his u2 with neutral jump, and dive kick crossup

delaying your divekick can cause his c.mk to whiff, allowing you to score a free combo.

Similar to balrog, Abel’s jb.hp is pretty good against dive kick rushes. i.e after the first dive kick, if you try to do the 2nd dive, his jb.hp will knock you silly. Bait and punish accordingly if you notice a pattern. You can prevent him from jumping with s.lk. In some situations, you can use fs.hk xx c.hk/fs.hk/SS/dive kick.

96

Just thought I should toss this out here, abel’s in TO and Rico use U1 against my Rufus because they look for c.hp+throw OS to get out of dive kick pressure. Also, Abel’s U2 is ineffective as an AA vs. rufus because of the angles that you can place your dive kicks.

#1 most important thing in the abel matchup is knowing how to block patiently and sniff out TT setups. As soon as you ‘sense’ or have seen a pattern showing a TT is coming, you want to instant dive kick into B&B.

This entire matchup (as with most other character matchups with abel) rewards the aggressor, so get in there and stay in there. If you find yourself in a stalemate with abel don’t start pressing c.hp, just take the time to move closer and push him to the corner. Keeping him in the corner actually isn’t so hard if your throw reactions are quick, so once he’s there keep him there. Also, don’t fear the corner yourself, the most dangerous place Abel can have you is midscreen lying on your back after an untechable knockdown.

97

Shouldn’t OS tech and c.hp have them tossing out a c.hp when you block meaning it should be super easy to bait and punish, right? Also, I really disagree with Breathless not being a good AA. I was just in the lab a bit with Breathless and you have to dive kick him very high to get behind him. When Abel activates Breathless, he takes a small step back when he gets ready to shoot so you have to dive at him higher than normal to prevent getting breathless’d. That also means a lack of dive kick pressure that can actually combo.

I think what Ultra Abel uses depends on the player. Both are viable in the match up vs Rufus and we need to be aware what it means when he has either.

98

i was a tourney the other day and some abel’s baited my ex messiah with a block string into roll, then punished me with u2
and also some abel’s seem to like jump back jab since it comes out quicker, so they can increase their chances of not getting stuffed by another attack.

other than that the abel matchup doesn’t seem too bad, just gotta mix up between safe neutral jump OS throws (to make them think you’re gonna dive kick) and the usual rufus shenanigans

99

IMO, the real threat of U2 is not landing it in the match. The main factor is eliminating their options. Hitting it is just a bonus. What can akuma do really without most of his options?? He cannot fireball, demon mix up, jump, whiff srk. Hell he even cannot do standing hk. No matter how good the akuma is. he can only do so much with our u2.

100

Except he couldn’t demon mix up, jump, whiff SRK or s.rh at ANY point in the match… Again, the only use is to stop fireballs and since his health is so low I feel that pressuring with U1 is much more effective than cutting the options he already doesn’t have with U2…

And back to Abel, I didn’t say breathless was not a good AA, I said it wasn’t good as AA when you know how to avoid it. Him having breathless does cut your options down though, as mid-height dive kicks are all off the table, but the truth is that in practice an abel with breathless needs to guess which divekick timing you’re going to do to be able to AA against you and if he’s wrong he loses a significant source of damage.

And yeah Choysauce, getting your ex messiah baited sucks hard :frowning: One of my main training partners is an abel player and he knows how I play so well that the messiah baits are second nature… except he uses U1.