Actuators are cheap, microswitches are cheap, jlf pivots are cheap, a whole new lever is only around $20.
too many opinions on this thread and not enough hard facts.
let’s get @Agieze on here with some plastics and durability lessons, clearly we need to know exact science on how much force does “riding the gate” really equate to.
Not everyone uses a Sanwa JLF or Semitsu LS-32.
There people who use more lets say … exotic parts, some that are not as easy to just swap in.
Also part of being an adult is not just trashing your stuff, learn to take care of your property.
What I am saying don’t be a Sanford Kelly with your game play.
I don’t ride the gate but if I played better by riding the gate I’d ride it all night and day. My performance is worth more than the cost of an actuator, time and cost put into maintenance or even a lever every year. Part of being an adult is knowing what choices you have and then choosing what is best for you given the situation. I can damn well choose if I want to destroy something.
Those few of us that use exotic parts are far in between in the grand scheme. Won’t catch me abusing a JLW actuator. JLF’s I will destroy for sheer amusement. (Kidding)
Na, I just rather flame people who are new on the forums who think that octo gates would automatically make them better. Especially if they don’t bother to learn.
No gate is going to make you play any better, on practice can do that.
Sure you could get a aluminum or derlin actuator, or you can not ride the gate.
Except that also effects your execution and you end up as suck. But I guess folks are going to ride the gate, grind down all moving parts into dust, bend their mount plate, pop the welds on the bracket and warp the top panel (assuming its metal) If it is a plexy panel it will eventually shatter.
Race car drivers do push their machines to the max, but they don’t unnecessarily abuse their machines ether.
See “drive them at their limits”. This whole “don’t ride the gate” thing seems so very silly to me. Do people really “ride” the gate so bad that they destroy actuators? I mean, damn. That’s ridiculous. If you do such a thing and you are actually good then I commend you. Fact of the matter is that it isn’t necessary to do so to the point of abuse. If you are you probably aren’t winning very often.
Its kinda hard to explain, as not many people are getting what I have to say.
There a difference between using the gate as a guide and grinding your stick.
The latter refers to applying way more force than ever necessary.
And its the worst with the circle gate, as I found out the hard way.
I am referring to personal experience and not empirical evidence which is not helping my case
but I am sure I am not the only one who ever notice this.
They do, I seen it a few times. I should have taken photos. It’s the same kind of people who can never use a acrylic Tek case, the case would break quickly.
Someone else did post pictures once of a JLF with the pivot and the main body grind into oblivion before.
I just can’t remember who it was.
I actually tried both and initially didn’t realize there was an option to choose different gates. I had measurably better results with the round gate, likely due to my long history with HAPP sticks. I also didn’t know this forum existed. If I hadn’t looked, I wouldn’t have even known there was a controversy. Considering I hadn’t touched a joystick in quite some time and was playing at a functional level with gamepads, there is at least some anecdoteal evidence, presented here, that old players used to HAPP sticks, might be better served using round gates. This isn’t a strategy, best practices or experience discussion, I’m discussing plain old biology, muscle memory and the results of engineering design without playtesting feedback.
What year did you star playing the series?
I don’t even remember
Really, all the wear I’ve seen on even the shitty plastic of a jlf actuator has been where the microswitches make contact, not where the actuator hits the gate. And that’s not even a factor with levered microswitches- I don’t think you could do anything short of hulking to damage a Seimitsu actuator, and I suspect the shaft would bend or break before that.
All this said, I’m not saying I advocate mauling your equipment, and I certainly don’t like people abusing my stuff, but I don’t think “riding the gate” necessarily constitutes “mauling”- there’s a pretty obvious line between someone feeling out a gate and someone beating on a stick (usually inexperienced with Japanese parts).
These levers were designed to be used in arcade machines by all sorts of people, few of which could be expected to be gentle on them. They’re designed to be repairable, and if you’re going to be rough on your parts (or have a loaner/2p lever that inexperienced people will be using) you should have the foresight to use levers you can get parts for, not a NOS wico.
I should record my ham fisted friend beating on my p2 lever sometime to demonstrate what I’m referring to.
Alright, I’ll be sure to not win EVO or take majors. Gotcha’ 
B) B) B)
It’s not that people aren’t understanding what you are saying. It’s that what you are saying is an opinion and not a fact but you want people to take it as a fact. You responded to my previous post and said that if you ride the gate you will be bad. I’m not sure about you but I’ve seen LOTS of people who knock the hell out of their stick and are obviously riding that would be considered quite good. So you’re trying to support a valid point, stick preservation, with a weak argument about how players will be bad who ride the gate that is supported by zero non-anecdotal evidence and contrary to what I’ve personally seen. That’s a scare tactic and I’m not a fan. People should be informed, not scared into a certain line of thinking.
I agree with your final opinion on which gate to choose and your warning that somebody could learn a bad habit and potentially harm their gear. I just don’t agree with all of your secondary reasoning since it’s based entirely on presumptions in that the player will form a bad habit and destroy their stick, that they will actually care and that they will turn into a bad player because of it.
Worth adding that lever maulers best the shit out of them with square gates also, often even more so in my observation due to the difficulty they’re having with moves.
What ever, I rest my case.
I am willing to bet, the only reason square-gates exist, is because they result in less wear-and-tear on the sticks (I mean the whole stick including, actuators, micro-switches, gates, etc). Arcade operators want to spend as little as possible on maintenance because they are running a business that is heavily reliant on cash flow. If a square-gate means the arcade operator spends less on maintenance, it only logical that it will become the most popular. This popularity of square-gates is NOT because its a superior input method, its popularity is only because its a superior cost saving measure, that has an “installation monopoly” across the entire market, when compared to the other gate options. I’d also argue that Japanese Arcade operators had this maintenance cost issue down to a science, when compared the the less efficient American arcade market, hence square gates rule the day in Japan, while the USA comparatively only recently started using them. Same applies for retail sticks for consoles and PC’s, square gates likely result in less returns.
So, just because current top players have adapted to the common availability of the square-gate, doesn’t necessarily mean there are real performance declines when using the other styles of gates.
It all about the huge volume of square-gates on the market. Most people are currently gaining experience on the more abundant square-gates, so, it should not be a surprise that the top players are using square gates, while the number of top round-gate players are few an far between or non-existent. Its simple, increase the number of round-gate users and also get more new people using round-gates, from day one, and then you will see the number of top players also increase that are using round-gates.
I don’t know the history of Japanese arcades or the rationale behind their mass adoption of square gates, but I doubt reduced wear was a factor. I recently went to a local upstart arcade (which had only been open a few “soft launch” nights) with all Japanese cabinets straight from a Club Sega- all used square gates, and most of the heavily played games had levers beaten to shit. American style levers are much tougher by design, it’s rare to see a problem (not counting the lack of sensitivity inherent in their design versus Japanese levers) with one beyond worn out microswitches.
I respect your opinion, but the reduced wear factor cannot be easily dismissed. The now common use of square-gates certainly wasn’t performance based shift, due soley to player feedback. There is plenty of documented history that arcade operator preferences trounce customer choice. A good example is the original pressure sensitive buttons on Street Fighter I. Arcade operators pressured Capcom to offer an alternative to them, due to maintenance cost (which is why we have a six button layout now, instead of pressure sensitive buttons). I know this first hand because I had an uncle who owned a Pinball Arcade that had a few non-pinball, novelty cabinets back in the 80’s.
There is also evidence stemming from USA console sticks and PC sticks released before the 2000’s. None had square gates, that I remember. Manufactures most certainly learned over time that those sticks, which did not have square gates, had a higher return rate when compared to square-gates.
Here is another thought, do top player prefer worn-in square gates or fresh new square-gates? Because over time the use of the stick is certainly wearing down the straight edges of the square-gate, therefore becoming more round.