sucks sagat has to stick his orangutan arms out when he tigers
maybe honda’s jab headbutt having extra length could have helped in the fake fireball dilema?
dammit sirlin, why arent all matchups even!???
Yeah, cause honda needs something else against non fireball characters. :lol:
Seriously, the best advice I’ve received about the Honda vs. Ryu match went sort of like this.
Me: "What can I do better in this match?"
Alex Valle: "Pick Bison? Haha."
Me: "Haha… :sad:"
Alex Valle: (Alex went on to say this match is pretty much a guessing game for Honda, and that’s why it’s such bullshit.)
This was after a very long set (80+ local matches) with him. It wasn’t like I was playing badly either, I did well in more favorable matches. But in the match vs Ryu by the time Alex was at 10 wins I only had 2. I totally agree with his analysis, and you’ve pretty much just said the same thing in your post Mack.
Trust me, my Honda pride kept me from taking this advice for a while, but if you’re interested in getting better at the entire game (not just Honda), you’re going to have to learn a second character or more.
Taking away Ryu’s Fake Hadoken would not really help Honda much in this matchup. If anything, it’ll go from 7-3 Ryu to 6-4 Ryu. Big deal. I’m in favor of Mackdaddi’s suggestions of a bit more invincibility for Jab Torpedo and much better startup invincibility for Honda’s Super, BUT ONLY in exchange for unstoreable Oichio.
Heh heh, even an average Ryu or Ken can give a good Honda a tough time. It’s funny, my Ryu and Ken can crush all Hondas of any skill level with frightening ease, it’s kinda disturbing actually. = D Cancellable sweep is worth Honda’s weight in gold. Sucks doesn’t it? Now you know how Zangief/Cammy/Hawk players feel vs Honda.
Agreed. Way back in the day, when I played Honda. Beating the better SHoto’s came down to guessing a jump-in over a fire ball some where in the match.
I think Jchensor nailed the problem with HDR honda right on the nose. He still has a hard time agaisnt the parts of the cast that he needed help against and still dominates the parts of the cast that he always dominated. His place in the tiering didn’t change much.
He did get help agaisnt Sim… but that match is still 50/50 ish. (Maybe slight advantage to Honda.)
I am no Honda expert, but that is the feeling I get.
Excellent ideas. However, I feel that if we going to increase the start up invincibility on the super, you should make build meter slower. Honda gets 2-3 around because his specials build meter so fast. That is too many, it will WAY to many if you up its invincibility.
I agree with all of this. :rock:
Oh no! I know where this is going. If we’re going to talk about how to improve Honda, let’s keep that to the Rebalancing ST Remix please!
Ohhhh no you di’in’t. Dem’s fighting words around these parts. I might have to fire the PS3 up and get some real Honda competition going for you 
Go easy on me stud, I’m SCAIRT of your Honda! :lol:
I’m not on PS3 these days, mostly offline vs buddies and stuff. I’m eventually planning to get on XBL, and then you can take your vengeance out on me. LOL
When that happens we’re going to run a train on you. :hitit:
Just make sure that “train” is not a Torpedo or a Super, cuz then it’ll get “derailed” by a Shoryuken. :hitit: HARD :nunchuck::chat:
Whenever you do, be sure to send us a friend request. XBL player rooms are SO MUCH BETTER than PS3 ones.
For sure bro, you and megaman will be the 1st ones I add to my FL, along with some other PSN peeps that switched to XBL. It just sucks that XBOX’s dpad is no good when compared to PS3.
Bro, arcade stick. Seriously.
Yeah, I know. Because I don’t want to derail this thread any further, I’m not going to go into my reasons for not getting a stick. But suffice it to say that I’m in no rush to get on XBL simply because the 360’s controller options are so bad for me. But when I do get on XBL (and it’s only a matter of time), I’m looking forward to playing some of XBL’s great Hondas such as yourself, megaman and Thelo. And I REALLY hope to catch Haru Tejyo’s Zangief vs some good Hondas. I wanna see how that dude does it, and hopefully pick up some tips. :razzy:
That’s good, because XBL is where all the good Honda’s are! LOL.
I totally agree with Fatboy, I don’t think any of the changes to Honda changed any of his match-ups. The bad ones are just as bad and the good ones are just as good. Some of the strategies might have changed somewhat but the overall W/L of the matches are basically the same.
I really do think fake fireball makes a differance, sure you have to guess through most of the match but if you worked yourself into a certain range you could look for the fireball start-up and go on reaction, sometimes even setting up yourself to take the round. Now with fake FB you can’t do that, so it’s a guessing game 100% of the time instead of 80% of the time. BS as EA says.
Does fake FB really help Ryu in any other match? It seems like more of a gimmick in any other match where against Honda it’s a valuable tool.
I’m thinking of taking up Vega just to use against top level Ryu’s, LOL.
I think the two most affected Honda matchups from ST to HD Remix, purely W/L-wise, are Sagat and Deejay.
Jab headbutt + tiger shots’ longer recovery and hitboxes help a lot in the Sagat matchup, while all the Honda buffs (jab headbutt, floating fierce, tripguard jump short, better super) are very noticeable vs Deejay.
Vs shotos, the matchup dynamic is somewhat different from ST to HD Remix, but as you know, Honda remains at a strong disadvantage.
(Maybe vs Cammy, Fei Long, Blanka is now somewhat more difficult, I never really played vs these chars in ST.)
Re: taking up a secondary, it’s a very valid way to go at it, but it’s also partly a question of personal style. I tried it at first myself, then got destroyed and knocked out of two tourneys whenever I switched to a secondary. Since then I decided to just stick with my main character and it seems to work better for me. But maybe taking up a secondary can work for you. :china:
The problem with a secondary character, especially one you have just for one match-up, is that the opponent can change characters and then you’re stuck using a charcater you’re not as comfortable with in a match up you’re not as familiar with. If i’m in a tourney I almost always just stick with the fat man.
The jab headbutt works well on Sagat butt I don’t know if that match-up changed all that much, and if it did if it had more to do with Honda’s buffs or it being R.Sagat and not O.Sagat.
DeeJay is a little better, Honda has a few more options, but it’s still not a whole lot better of a match-up. At least he has to make DJ think about what AA to use now.
Supposedly Cammy and Fei are tougher match-ups, but like you said no one used them in ST so it’s hard to tell, LOL. But if they are it has a lot more to do with their buffs instead of Honda’s nerfs. Bison I think is much better for him now, standing jabs help him and no more Ochio trap in corner helps since he had no way out of that without Super.
Just seems that overall, most of the Honda changes didn’t amount to much of a differance. I do think that as much as I loved ST, I think Honda is more fun in HDR.
anyone got any advice for the bison matchup?
i always think im out of block stun and able to attack, next thing i know im either grabbed, hit out of trying to reverse, or dizzied.
seems like if im not in bison’s face from the beginning of the match I lose.
that’s…basically the bison matchup for everyone I guess. ticks into ochios and he doesn’t have super means all he can do is reversel devils reverse, which leaves him all WHOPEE in the air and you charging your next move.
store that ochio and reverse it or jab headbutt when you think you have an opening out of his mixups, than start splashing into nonsense
hands and buttslam probably have a place in this match, but i’ll leave thelo, EA, or other hondas to answer for that