If you don’t shake out of grabs, you deserve to die quick.
Sounding kind of defensive there. Does it have anything to do with that the characters I suggested represent 2/3rds of your ST/HDR mains? 
This isn’t about me - it’s a comparison of the base damage these throws do, say compared to Ken’s which never did as much but got nerfed regardless. But since you mentioned it, I do mash (or try to) out of grabs, but it’s not as effective when you are using the D-pad on the 360.
Also when testing damage, I have a little unscientific way which is push the opponent into the far right on Ken’s stage and use the skyscrapers as sort of landmarks for how much damage is done. Fierce SPD vs fierce ochio seem about equal, but ochio seems to get higher damage a little more often (but then again damage is somewhat random).
T.Hawk can KO you with 3 throws.
When I said “you”, I meant anyone who didn’t, not you personally. I understand that it would be harder using a controller. It’s just most people I fight (even really good ones) don’t seem to shake out of holds, giving me full damage.
My problem with some holds, like rog’s, is its just another awesome thing that he has. And by awesome i mean does he really need so many good tools.
I agree that his offense is pretty limted due to his lack of priority in general. Pretty much every move he has that has priority requires a lot of commitment (specials) or just isn’t threatening (cr. jab). Like vs Honda, Zangief’s “go to pokes” cr. hk and far mk are just outmatched by Honda’s tools. Honda’s sweep and HHS outreach everything Zangief can do, his HHS usually stuffs mk and cr. hk is unreliable unless he is far away, headbutts beat both, and everything that beats headbutt is either too weak to matter (cr. jab) or unreliable (lariat).
That is a very interesting idea. Zangief’s jump doesn’t go very high so if it had enough reach downwards to beat Blanka’s standing strong, wouldn’t it give him enough time to throw you before you can do anything? I also think it would be a better fit on his jumping jab just because it is currently outclassed by his jumping strong in every way. If his jumping knees made his hurtbox smaller instead of extending it downwards it could beat Blanka’s standing strong (or make him whiff) without giving him enough time to throw you.
I didn’t even bother checking the damage for T.Hawk as his gameplay pretty much revolves around that move, whereas Honda has a lot more options. The fact a grappler can KO someone with 3 throws isn’t as strange as a non grapper KO’ing you with 3 throws. Honda could be considered a grappler to some extent, but I still think that his Ochio should do less damage than the SPD (even if only 10% less). I see that Hawk’s 360 does more damage than 'Gief’s, but that is offset by the throw ranges and the fact that Zangief has better matchups across the board. I’m no Hawk player, but it seems a lot harder getting in on some guys than with Zangief.
No problem man, sorry I took it the wrong way.
Sup x64, I was referring to the grappling throws that you cannot do a shake for the quick standing recovery (i.e. oichio, SPD, Hawk Slams).
I still stand by what I said earlier that the SPD is slightly stronger in damage when you compare “Fierce SPD vs Fierce Oichio.” quite possibly by 10% difference in Gief’s favor. I have never seen any Honda out grab a “Gief’s SPD ready” with an oichio at toe-to-toe level.
And yes Jiggly is right, 3 Hawk Slams and its goodbye. I can live with that and his super hawk grab does approx. 75% damage.
p.s. Rather than re-balancing this game since the original is unbalanced, Capcom of Japan should just make another edition of SF2, not a sequel like SF5 to make the balancing corrections, add a few new moves or changes! Much like how they did when they moved from HF to Super SF2. Still the same game just reincarnated with some added elements. That way, it’ll be an official release that Japanese players will support like all the other Japanese released SF’s and Capcom of Japan will support their games that they release. Unlike having a third party developer company (Backbone) that Capcom of Japan will not support because they have no involvement in the changes that was made.
Plus, they could reanimate this with new graphics 2D (of course) and make it HD ready.
Boxer was shit tier for the longest time in CE and HF. He deserves to shine in ST and HDR.
I was actually replying to Zero, but I did mistake clarifying what kind of throw I was talking about. I should’ve said “hold”. I can see how someone could construe what I said as “teching” normal throws, which was not what I was getting at.
I have to respectfully disagree with that rationale. We know that ticks can be reversed as the defender has windows for reprisal. Vega, Balrog, and Chun Li are very fast characters on the ground and need not rely on tick throws to attempt to gain an advantage in throw situations. They also have little trouble getting into throw situations and their longer throw ranges (relative to Fei in this discussion) eases the task even more. Fei can be zoned out fairly easily and has less options to punish at a distance as these characters.
Furthermore, of the aforementioned, Chun and Vega are also very fast in the air which enhances their abilities to land throws as opponents have less time to react. Compare this to Fei’s floating jump and the advantage is stark.
Something as simple as extending Fei’s throw range would make him even more dangerous. It wouldn’t even have to be as dominant as Blanka/Honda/Chun/Bison/Balrog/Dhalsim but average–along the lines of Ryu or Guile’s throw range. It seems patent that a character that struggles to get in should be rewarded in throwing situations once he finally gets there.
Chun has a fast walk speed and a huge throw range. Dictator has a fast walk speed and a good throw range.
I would love too see Fei have the same.
Character dynamics are not so simple as x has this therefore y should have it aswell.
Edit: To explain:
Homogenizing the cast rather than making the game more balanced would just make the characters dull.
The reason Chun has a fast walk and large throw range is that she lacks a :u::hk:,:hp:, :hp: Rekka x3 combo and the reason Dictator has fast walk and large throw range and good combos is because he lacks both a flame kick and a chickenwing.
You make it sound as if Fei Long has one of the most dominating arsenals in the game.:lol: In that case, why does Balrog need a huge throw range? According to many Balrog players, it’s “fun.” I can imagine.
What I suggested is not about “homogenization”–I didn’t suggest that every character have a Dragon Punch. lol It is just a slight modification. Would giving Fei Long a throw range between that of Ryu and that of DeeJay’s suddenly break the game? I would love to hear that argument. For instance, the two characters that you mentioned would still have a throw range advantage over Fei after the change.
I highly doubt that this change would skew his few favorable matches even more in his favor but it would make his tougher ones (i.e. Vega & Honda) a bit more manageable. Compared to changes that one could argue for pertaining to his Flame Kick and Flying Kicks, this one is mild.
I say this respectfully and without the intent of insulting anyone’s intelligence. I hope that this was clearly explained–I ramble sometimes.
You miss the point.
This does not relate only to Fei but to all characters that people argue about needing something because another character has it.
You may have been correct with ST fei, but lk flamekick is no longer jab dragon, and CW isn’t the tool it used to be.
. <----- You.
. <— The point.
Where did i say anything about homogenizing? You said bison had better throw range since he didn’t have flamekick or CW, and chun didn’t have rekka combo. I’m saying the throw range he had in ST was linked with his tools in ST, which he no longer has. So are you saying his throw range shouldn’t get a slight buff when some of his tools got nerfed?
Oh you’re one of those that feel Fei got worse in HDR ?
Then i guess your argument makes sense.
Damn threadstarter you wrote a lot.
I’m here to say thanks for being a fellow HDr fan.
Also wanna ask you if you are actually thinking when you came up with this stuff?
Geif Green hand. Its a move that he does by spinnign very hard. It would be broken if he recovered too fast.