that depends on range and startups.
if you use a meaty overhead on your opponent’s wakeup, their crouch tech will be stuffed 100% of the time.
if you use overhead after your opponent has activated a normal move, like c.lk from crouch teching, overhead can still beat it, depending on spacing.
overhead has a great hitbox.
i have anti-aired with overhead by accident many times.
comparing overhead to backthrow is like saying you prefer jump-in fierce to crouching roundhouse.
they are different tools with different purposes.
sure it is better to get a backthrow than it is to get an overhead, but there are circumstances where backthrow will not hit, but overhead will.
under those circumstances you must ask yourself if you prefer 80 damage to something like getting teched or having your opponent jump away.
Raun, will you give me some examples of what you mean? Besides the obvious overhead on their wake-up, what’s an example of a good block string —> overhead?
Cr.HP xx hado xx fadc overhead if you try for back throw you miss cause they are still in hit stun go for overhead. Jumping in with HP and trying to throw right away loses to delayed crouch tech or whiffs if you do it to early because they will be in block stun. But if you over head you beat delayed crouch tech.
i just tap 2 or 3 times with c.lp then do the overhead if i am going to use it, beside using it on their wakeup.
i dont want to be a dick about it, but i gave you two examples directly under the line that you quoted.
if they are teching consistently, why not smack them with overhead?
if they are jumping away, overhead is better than backthrow.
when someone jumps, the 4 frames that it takes them to leave the ground are throw immune.
gouken’s overhead is the only ground based move that he has that beats crouch tech and jumping away with the same timing.
im not trying to convince you to use the move, but i know it isnt a bad move.
i use it, it works and when i hit people with it they say “damn, no gouken uses that move!” and i feel like a badass.
I’ve been playing around with the d+mk dive kick (not the DF dive kick) in training mode and it’s awesome to combo from, say an almost safe ryu fireball range. If you hit the opponent basically below the knee or lower, you’re guaranteed to combo into cr.fp or standing fierce. If they block you’re guaranteed a block string, say cr.fp into hadou to keep distance.
The fact that it has to be blocked low, and that DF jump is similar to regular jump makes this move extremely ambiguous. Use this one round instead of demon shenanigans and then bust out DF later in the set and you’re guaranteed to screw an opponent up. Definitely one of gouken’s msot deceiving moves.
You’re not being a dick at all. And i’m not trying to make you prove yourself to me like you’re on trial or something. I just legitimately want to start using it and want some guidance.
So. Let’s say your opponent blocks your jump-in fp, and you immediately to the overhead afterwards. If the opponent tries to grab you immediately after the fp, won’t the slow startup of the overhead get you thrown? Wouldn’t tech/jab strings be the only safe thing to do in that scenario? I mean if the overhead always beats grabs i’d do it every second. I assume you can get thrown out of it easily and this is why i asked you for specific setups. You can’t just substitute overhead in place of grab and expect to not get thrown. Ya know?
Excuse me if i misunderstand, but doesn’t that move have to be blocked high always? Or is it dependant upon where the kick hits.
Also one would think the major ambiguity of this move is the mixup potential between crossup/not crossup with your jump-in. The trajectory of your jump makes them block the other way for the crossup and bam, instant not-crossup to the face. Could be wrong, i haven’t gone to training mode with this yet like you have. Gonna tomorrow.
oh no, i almost only use overhead after 2-3 jabs (outside of throw range) or on my opponent’s wakeup, and sparingly at that.
i would never user it point blank after a blocked jump in.
its slow startup would get it thrown, reversal’d or poked by tech.
i probably use it once a round or less and it hits almost every time.
Nope, I wasn’t paying attention to what I was typing. jumping forward into d+mk needs to be blocked HIGH. I meant to say that it can NOT be blocked low, while the demon flip kick can be blocked low or high.
I believe that the differences between DF jump and regular jump is that gouken calls out in-game when he’s doing a demon flip and when he does the demon flip kick. Also, a demon flip jump looks a little more deliberate as you reach the apex.
But both d+mk and DF-Kick look exactly the same. And when you’re playing in a tournament and there’s hype all around you, I doubt someone’s going to be paying attention to the sound.
Yes, the d+mk is comboable, and you have to hit it very low from mid-range. I’ve found it to link when I hit it below the knee on most average characters; straight into a crouching or close standing fierce punch.
As with most of gouken’s beefy combo starters, I’d say this works better when you’re using demon flips sparingly in the first place, and when you’re trying to apply corner pressure as most of the instinct there is block low and tech throws.
I agree. All of Goukens hk normals rule in SSF4. St. hk is a great move to set up your kongo’s with, It’s -3 on block and most moves aside from kara grabs and armor breakers can’t beat a follow up kongo at that range.
Yeah, standing far HK is good… Close version HK is fast too.
Another gouken “normal” that seldom use is his overhead, i.e. Forward + MP.
This need to be blocked high, very good to confuse crouch blocking opponents, theoretically it shd work like Ryu’s or Akuma’s overhead…
