im going to disagree with that statement. try doing a air fireball, and then dash in demon. if they parry it, they cant get out.
also, if you do red fireball xx demon, if you space your self correctly, if they parry the first hit of the fireball, the demon will hit
simon
No, they can always parry and hold up. Parrying doesn’t make you vunerable whatsoever. In fact, you get frame advantage from parrying, so you can always act before your opponent does anything.
nope JLC – parrying gives you frame advantage, but the parry frames are subsceptible to all grab moves. that’s why twd + strong, if parried, is such a great demon trap [that almost noone knows about =/]. :evil:
simon: as for timing red fireball – unless they parry the 2nd hit or 3rd hit, AND you’re close by, i don’t think that’ll ever happen, considering the recovery frames on the red fireball is so high. 
but as i’ve said before – anyone short of an idiot wouldn’t fall for that. and for the air fireball trap – you don’t even need to dash. just do a kneedeep air fireball and buffer the demon until you land.
Well, if you do the demon right beside someone while they’re parrying, it’ll grab most of the time. But this is not because of the parry itself. Parrying is essentially the same as staying in neutral state. The reason is that when most people parry something, they’ll tend to react with a counterattack, or even just block or do nothing. Nobody ever parries and then hold up. And you need to hold up before the super freeze to jump out of the demon at point blank. So yes, doing the demon while someone’s parrying something right beside you will result in success most of the time, but it’s not because of the properties of the parry itself - it’s because of how people tend to act after a parry.
For a similar experiment you can try clap cancelled into Gigas with Hugo. It is possible to parry to the clap and then immediately hold up to jump the Gigas.
whats up man, the only time i do a red fireball into demon, which is rare. is when they have to parry or die from the block damage from the fireball. dont get me wrong it is rare. but when you do get the chance to do it, its like pick your poison.
exodus, you goin to evo, cuz its tough to explain the air fireball dash in demon, and i can just show you there
late
simon
JLC: i don’t know --> there’s never been a situation where someone has jumped out of my parry to demon, but i guess since you pointed out the hugo situation, i can only assume it works also with RD. however, there’s just something about RD’s FEELING that says GRABBED. and even though hugo’s startup is 1, and RD is 2, it still seems that gigas is slower cuz of the animation…
simon: unfortunately, i can’t come to EVO cuz of family/monetary problems. parents don’t like me gaming, so traveling to game for money is obviously out of the question. especially when i live on the opposite side of the coast. but i’m going to try my best to make it to ncubed this year…
as for the air fireball situation, i do know what you’re talking about. however, i don’t find it very feasible either, because doing air fireball around peak is very subsceptible to dash unders – kneedeeps prevent this, although i doubt any person would parry a knee-deep air fireball. but for that very same purpose, you can knee-deep the jab fireball to buffer for demon, since the fireball doesnt come out.
I heard from SlimX that the startup for gigas is 4 actual frames, but it has a unique property that you can’t start a jump during those 4 frames. So you have to start the jump before the gigas, even though it might not look like it when the gigas starts. the RD may have the same sort of property, with the only weird thing being that is has multiple grab frames, so it keeps trying to grab you. Either way it bears further testing. As an interesting note, if you are in blockstun when the RD start, just mash jab+short and you’ll throw akuma out of it. Even the blockstun from a jab when you are doing the motion is enough to get thrown.
Start-up for Megaton Press is 4 frames.
Start-up for Gigas is 1 frame.
Gee, you can read the numbers off my own site, good for you. I got those numbers out of a book, and just because it’s printed in a book doesn’t mean it’s perfectly accurate. I challenge you to record the super animation for the gigas and watch it frame by frame. I just did, and the way I see it, the whole super freeze counts as 1 frame, hugo then leans forward for 1 more frame, and then grabs him the very next frame. Aha you might say, that’s clearly 2 frames, so you’re wrong. But I would laugh, because I know the game runs at 60fps, and my capture card only captures at 30. But the point is proved that it is more than 1 frame.
Back to what i was originally going to post about, if akuma does the SGS right next to you like off the dive kick in a way that doesn’t cause you to go into block or hitstun, you cannot jump after the super freeze, he’s got you.
I have the bible, I don’t need your site. Still, the “grab” is the “hit” frame, not the start-up frame.
If I retract my statement above, can I also join the “SlimX nut licker” club? Otherwise, I’ve proved my point.
If you parry a projectile you are frozen for the parry free and can be throw, but because it’s a projectile you parried your opponent and move freely. So comparing red fireballs to hugo’s clap is wrong. If someone is parrying a red fireball and you dash into raging demon and are point blank, unless you got the raging demon out exactly when one of their parries ended, they will be grabbed, even if they were holding up before the super freeze.
well – it’s very confusing considering that the information within the book, and the information at the end of the book, can sometimes be conflicting. when streak transferred the frame data, he went along the entire book, and then used the end of the book [in the charts] for more information.
i believe the information at the end of the book is more accurate [as well as more information given], so i will reform the data on karathrow.com to reflect the entire chart in the back of the book [thus eliminating any conflicting data].
but rei…if you had the book, you would realize that the start-up for gigas is actually 5 frames. it reports it as 1 frame in the middle, which is why it is reported as 1 frame at karathrow.com – do you really have the book? =/
in any event – i’m going to try and translate as much as i can to see if it solves this parrying issue…
Yeah, have the book, and the New Generation bible.
A while back I was posting stuff from the book in the character threads (before each character got their own sub-forum) and got flamed to high heaven about it by people like SlimX. Granted, it looked like I was pulling this stuff out of my ass, because I wasn’t citing my source, but nevertheless, SlimX still thinks he is final authority on the subject, even when I’m quoting the bible and other guides directly.
I’ve become jaded to the whole who is right and who is wrong argument. Who cares?
I’m just here to play third strike.
i’m not sure of your past relations with slimx, but he has the bible, and translates it fairly well as well. after all, it wasn’t until streak posted that slimx said that gigas startup was 4 – that was when i checked the book myself. people look up to him because he’s tinkered with the game alot, and has knowledge of the game. i’m sure noone is in the slimx nut licker club. streak and slimx are real life friends, and they 3S all the time…=P
Wha- wha- what? Why is my name being thrown around in here so much? I get my frame information from a page by a guy named Zero who lists the arcade frame data and how it works (http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Oakland/3285/zero.htm). Instead of just listing a number for how fast supers start up, he has the number of frames the screen is frozen, activation, “stuck” frames, etc. In reference to Hugo, as Streak said, you can also watch it frame by frame and see that he goes through multiple frames before he makes the grab. I also don’t just make this stuff up, but I also site my sources. Rei is bitter with me because of an exchange that took place in the Elena thread a while back (though our discussion had little to do with Elena). What started it was this description:
"
A target combo is part of the 3S game engine, and does not favor any specific character.
Every character has a super that will “step forward” and continue the combo even though they don’t have a normal move that could do the same thing. Elena’s target combo super is break dance. Chun’s is SAII, Dudley’s is Cockscrew Blow, Necro’s is E_Snake, etc.
"
I told him this was incorrect and asked him to site even one source that backed it up, and he wouldn’t do so. You can read the whole thing here:
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7299&perpage=60&pagenumber=1
As far as jumping out of the demon is concerned, again, as JLC said, parrying gives you frame advantage. You can always input a command first (including jumping) before anything will happen to you. Mind you, you’d have to parry and -immediately- hold up, but it is technically possible. It is, in fact, the same principle as Gigas. Projectiles have nothing to do with it.
OFMG!!1!! SILMX!1!@! CAN I GET YUOR AUTOGRAPHZOR?!?/?!?1
<3<3<3
kekekekekekeke
Go into parry training. Have the dummy be akuma and have him walk forward a little bit, throw a fierce red fireball, and dash forward and throw right as he recovers from the fireball. Now, replay it and try to parry all 3 hits of the fireball and jump. I dare you to jump.
Hey Rei you must be an elite SF grandmaster. Could you teach me sitting strong target comboed ShinShoryuken please?
now everyone who reads that will be GRANDMASTERS!!! damn, Rei giving away the deepest dojo secrets! i’m gonna sitting forwardxxdonkey kick you! or maybe hopxxsuper!
PS- that’s okay because it’s a verdite dimensional split and SRKers don’t understand science and molecules and…
slimx: the bible also lists screen-freeze frames, invincibility frames, and opponent freeze-frames. all the in-depth information lies in the charts in the back of the book. also – some of zero’s information might be inaccurate, as i was intrigued to see how long akuma’s ‘god-hand’ was invincible for. zero reports it as only 2 frames, which is obviously not true. the bible however, reports it at 20 frames, which is definitely more accurate.
and guys, let’s stop the flaming. rei had backup for his explanation of the ‘target combo’, and slimx had an adequate reason to not believe him. don’t instigate 
in any case, i’ve solved the problem! 
– you cannot escape a raging demon after parrying akuma’s move, if akuma is canceling the move into the demon. for instance, akuma does -> + strong to do his overhead chop. while the animation is running, he is doing the RD command, and once the opponent parries the overhead hit, the demon activates. at this point, the opponent has no way of escaping. i can’t be EXACT as to whether or not he can escape if he taps up right after he parries, but i’m going to guess no. every character’s jump start-up frame is at least 3 frames, while the demon only has 2 frames for start-up. you also cannot input any commands while the game is in the super-arts freeze animation. but then again, IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW QUICKLY THE AKUMA PLAYER EXECUTED THE DEMON. if it executed right after the opponent parries, i highly doubt the opponent has time to input the jump command [since the freeze animation would take effect].
JLC was correct in saying they can escape hugo’s, because hugo’s gigas has a 5-frame start-up. being as each character’s jump is no less than 3 frames and no more than 5 frames, it is possible to hold up after the parry to escape the gigas, as long as gigas is not performed so quickly that the opponent doesnt even have a chance to tap up. note however, that the opponent cannot input any commands during 4 of the 5 frame start-up [this explains why you may not jump after the animation freeze].
on a sadder note, i’m no longer working with streak to improve www.karathrow.com 
i overdid it…tehehhee…oh well, guess i’m free to play around tomorrow