I’ve seen this, just wondering why it’s specific to cr.HP, couldn’t I do this off practically anything, whats making cr.HP so good at it?
Then use it like that, you just answered your own question
You can do it off just about anything, but c.hp is a good candidate because of its hitstun (or blockstun if that’s how you’re rolling) and it moves you forward. Ryu likes c.hk xx VT - same thing, isn’t it?
No, I haven’t. I’m looking for hit-confirmable normal xx VT setups that I can use off a jump-in or dash. I’m not looking to make that my go-to option at this point, but would like to have it ready if the correct opportunity presents itself. I’ve got a feeling though that this engine is pretty shallow with weird hit-strings, so target and mp are probably the only options.
Not sure if this works in the lab (not testing stuff right now), but normally the input for a cross-up DP is:
forward, down+forward, down, down+back + Punch
This works because the game reads the forward and down inputs while the opponent is still on the side they started on, but then reads the d/b input at the end as d/f when the opponent changes sides, and fires the uppercut in the right direction.
I don’t know if you can “fool” the lab with this technique, but give it a shot. It WON’T give you a DP if you don’t cross up (you should just get c.hp), but if I’m right, then if you DO cross up, the DP should correct and fire to the right side. Because the CPU automatically “side corrects” recorded inputs, though, I don’t know if the d/b will get “corrected” and mess up the technique.
The technique works in game, but I’m not sure if it’ll fly as a lab recording.
Yes, you can VTC off of almost any normal. Any character can. However, punishable normals gain a disproportionate benefit from being VTCed, because it takes the risk out of the equation.
The question isn’t really “what about c.hp makes VTC so good?” it’s “what about VTC makes c.hp so good?”
c.hp is normally a highly punishable tool. Very difficult to apply without precise spacing, very negative on block, and it doesn’t even really provide much payoff even if you do hit with it.
However, throw in a VTC buffer, and now c.hp turns into a full combo starter than can eat life-bars for breakfast on hit, and set gross ambiguous mixups on block.
c.hp doesn’t make VTC good; VTC makes c.hp good.
Sure you can VTC your standing jab if you want to, but it doesn’t make your standing jab much better. c.hp gets MUCH better with a VTC buffer.
i think V-Skilling jabs then going directly in to a throw before the v-skill lands will start becoming a very useful tool when people start to learn that you don’t avoid Mikas V-attack by jumping.
I’ve had some kills in the 2,000 - 3,000 gap of just activating a Vertical one full screen (After absorbing) & watching them back jumping away. (Not that i’d ever recommend this)
I’ve been using her f.mk as a meaty since beta 2 after peach (when it had it’s range from initial mika build, you used to be able to get st.mp, st.hp xx hp peach for 4 hit damage combo), surprised it’s just being talked about now. I’ll shed some more light on this.
You can do this after any peach (lp, mp, hp) and it meaties an opponent on back roll perfectly. On regular hit, st.mp xx hp peach, put them back in in the same situation. Now the issue is once people start getting better this won’t work for quick rise and you pretty much have to guess after peach if their going to quick rise or back roll. If you do this and they quick rise you’re super negative and going to get hit.
Things to note: even though this is meatied and you can link a st.mp on regular hit, if they BLOCK this you are at 0. That’s right, you can only jab after and trade with another 3f light. So please if you are doing this and see that they block do not go for anything other than a st.lp because most often they will go for throw since you are so close and the jab will CH the throw startup netting you a st.lp (CH), target combo xx MP peach combo.
The mixups for this is after peach do a dash, and then brimstone grab once they stop trying to jump out of the f.mk meaty. Once you get them fearing the throw just dash and block, it’s perfect range that if they neutral jump you get a free AA and its perfect range that they cannot wakeup throw you either (and conversely, you can whiff punish their throw attempt with st.mp xx hp peach).
So if I’m reading all this properly then a meaty f.MK after a standard target combo into peach is -3 if they quick rise and block? If that’s the case then I imagine at the very least we have to react to the quick rise or the back rise accordingly as to not get punished by the faster normals in the game?
Dunno if this has been mentioned yet, but for the s.mk wakeup tech that has been going around these last couple of pages, I was able to implement a non-teched wakeup (slow/non quick rise/non backroll) setup from this particular video (shoutouts to drekerrr).
So, let’s go over the tech really quick:
s.lk -> s.mp xx MP Peach, forward dash, f+mk
We already know what you can do against Quick Rise (QR) or Back Roll (BR) wakeup. The f.MK will meaty both options, but on a normal, slow wakeup, the f.MK will whiff while the opponent is still on the ground. If you apply the same tech that’s on the video above, you can then whiff a s.HP followed by a f+HP, so the string will go as so:
s.lk -> s.mp xx MP Peach, forward dash, f+mk, s.HP, f+HP
Both the f+MK and the s.HP will help you time the slow riseup correctly, so when the opponent finally gets up, the f+HP will meaty them, which is an amazing setup for an R. Mika player.
On Block: f+HP will leave you with +3 AND you’ll be up close to the opponent, time to start throwing fools around!
On Counter Hit: Crush Counter! Follow up with either forward dash, f+HP > EX Wingless Airplane OR charged HK > EX Shooting Peach to carry them in the corner.
On Normal Hit: HK/EX Wingless Airplane
So now, you got an option for all three different wake up options off the forward dash, f+MK meaty setup:
On Quick Rise, the f+MK will meaty them.
On Back Roll, the f+MK will also meaty them.
On Slow Wakeup, the f+MK, alongside a s.HP, will help you time a meaty f+HP
EDIT: So really quick, you can’t just start going HAM on people with this setup after a knockdown. Remember that there are currently four characters with meterless, invincible reversals (Ryu, Ken, Necalli, and Cammy), so keep that in mind whenever you attempt these wakeup setups on them early in the match. Then you also have to keep in mind the other characters that have invincible reversals that require EX meter, but by then, hopefully you’re already in your 2nd reset combo ready to stun them. 
I think the best use for this tech is to see how a player will react to a knockdown early in the match and to get a read on them. Most players out there will usually rely on one of the three possible wakeup options. Once you’re able to tell what wakeup option they prefer, you can then confirm easier with your preferred CH combo on your second knockdown since you already know the spacing if you took this setup to the lab. Only the really good ones will mix up their wakeup to throw your timing off, but at least you got all three options covered with this tech so you can keep on using it and at least keep your opponent blocking or walking back to avoid grabs.
S/O to b4k4 and everyone in the R. Mika threads that have been sharing this type of tech. Will definitely help up-and-coming R. Mika mains have a better gameplan once you knock someone down with a MP Shooting Peach!
Chavelo, are you sure you can get f.mk meaty after a quick rise doing a dash after an MP peach? When I tested a while back this didn’t work at all. I’m not home right now so I can’t test but I remember there wasn’t enough time after a knockdown to get a full dash and a f.mk in there (as meaty). I found it only worked on back roll.
Odd, I was able to get it working on my end yesterday after I read b4k4’s posts in the last couple of days. I did set the CPU to wake up with a crouching 3-frame jab after the knockdown, as well as to do normal (QR) recovery. It worked fine on a couple of casual matches after I asked a friend to let me test it out for a bit. I can try to record a video once I get back home (I was already thinking of doing this since I can already tell it’ll be a staple for R. Mika’s gameplan).
So this depends on how you define “meaty”, because there are kind of two interpretations.
Interpretation 1:
Will the move hit an opponent during the first frame after waking up.
Interpretation 2:
Will the move hit an opponent LATER IN ITS ACTIVE HIT FRAMES during the first frame after waking up.
Working with these definitions, the dash, f+mk setup is only “meaty” in the first sense if the opponent does a QR. It is, however, “meaty” in the second sense if the opponent does a BR.
Meaty is a little ambiguous as a term, because it covers both of these cases.
@Chavelo
Glad you’re finding the tech useful and that you’re building on it. Wanted to share two things regarding your work.
1./ f+HP (non-CC), HK Wingless is also a combo. You mentioned using EX Wingless here, which does net more damage, but HK Wingless also works as long as you do the input ASAP after the f+HP animation.
2./ To add to what you worked on for the cases where they don’t recover at all, instead of QR/BR…
Combo into MP Peach, dash, f+mk, whiff s.mp, f+hp
…is also a perfect timing to hit them on wakeup. Having the s.mp version in your pocket as well lets you mix it up against people starting to recognize your patterns.
After everything we’ve been talking about in this thread, I should also add…
After a Peach combo ender where the opponent does QR, you can also just walk forward and f+HP to hit meaty and CC wakeup buttons. The thing is, there’s no surefire timing trick to it - you just need to time it manually. f+HP does have enough active frames to give you some margin for error, and if you spend a bit of time in the lab with it it’s not that hard to get used to.
Ah, yeah, had a feeling that one also worked, but I wasn’t sure since I’m at work at the moment and I didn’t wanna give incorrect info while not able to confirm myself. I know for a fact EX Wingless works since I remember doing it a couple of times yesterday, but I forgot to test HK Wingless. Thanks for the correction. 
YAAAAASSSS, I only had time to test the f+MK, s.HP, f+HP, but this is great to hear. R. Mika can be much scarier when you got multiple ways to meaty people up. Good shit!
I was going with #2 because you can’t combo f.mk otherwise unless it hits on active frame 3 or 4. The issue is when they do QR, sure, you CAN hit them with f.mk, but you’re going to be at negative frames and you just lost “your turn” if they block it (and some characters can punish you, it’s -3). That’s why it’s not a catch all setup, only works well for backroll because even if they block it you’re at 0 and not negative frames at the very least.
CH f+mk links into s.lk even if it only hits on the first active frame, and is +2 on a normal hit. Agreed that -3 on block is bad, but if you anticipate a QR you can use dash s.mp instead. If the f+mk caught them pressing something, even on the first frame, you can CH confirm into s.lk combo to reset the situation.
The reason I’ve been talking about this f+mk setup in specific is that it covers BOTH a QR and BR, because of its active frames and forward range, which is a strong tool to have in your pocket. You can use different setups that are more ideal if you KNOW what they are going to do (e.g. dash, s.mp vs. QR, or dash, f+hp vs. BR), but having something that can catch BOTH is definitely strong tech to be sitting on, ESPECIALLY vs. characters with no 3 frame punishes (e.g. 'Gief with no CA, Birdie, FANG, Bison, Dhalsim, and Nash).
I don’t want to derail this thread anymore, so I’ll just let this go but all I’m trying to say is that if the opponent quick rises after an lp, mp, or HP peach. If Mika does dash F.mk and they block, you’re going to have a bad time. The point I was trying to get across is that it isn’t a one true godlike setup that works for all 3 wakeup scenarios and leaves you in advantage. Carry on
R.Mika wake up OS against meaty throws / normals, shimmy and neutral jumps.
Block the 1th frame after you wake up then do qcf.PPP plinked with LK.
Interesting stuff made by Desk
At 0:51 against Birdie: holy shit!
quick question.
It seems charged HK on hit is +4. The fact that her SPD’s have a startup of 5 makes me think this would be a frame perfect SPD setup.
But it whiffs. So I’m not sure what’s the reason. What am I missing here?
Well of course combo videos are meant to be pretty and not “usefull”, like in terms of damage.
But what I just realized watching this video is that after a s.HP xx neutral Nadeshiko and s.LP, we can link a jump HP or a Dropkick. This may open an oportunity for a new max damage combo right? Specially the j.HP I guess.
You’re probably using wrong SPD. Try light or ex for either version.
I’m pretty sure this has already been discovered but I haven’t seen it implemented much online. There’s a setup where you would fmp-fmp to throw the character but you would throw them the opposite way then go into a crouching lk into crouching hp then quickly you can set up a command grab throw using half circle kick/punch, throw, etc