f. mp is important yes, and there’s a mika noobie thread you can look through for your second question because that’s a pretty broad question. The answer is generally get opponent to corner, however
Random Mika Input Tech - Double-Tapping charged s.hk:
*NOTE - I was wrong about this at first, read the whole thing including the edit and it’ll explain the correct implementation.
I don’t know who here plays on stick or pad. I play on stick since I grew up in the arcades.
I also double tap or piano most of my inputs where applicable. Don’t worry about it if you don’t know what I’m talking about, but if you also play Mika on stick (or even pad, really) then this can be helpful.
You can’t really double-tap if you have to charge s.hk, because you have to release one of the inputs… or so I thought.
It turns out, if you bind a button on your stick to K+K+K you can emulate the double-tap technique by inputting
s.[hk]~[K+K+K]
The [ and ] denote a held button press, and the ~ denotes a very brief interval - think P-Linking in SFIV.
The thing is, if you don’t do it at the fastest timing and with a slight delay (2-3 frames?), the game reads the input as:
hk
lk+mk
Not what we’re trying to get. However, with no delay (1f between the [hk] and [K+K+K] inputs) you instead get:
hk
lk+mk+hk
That’s better. Because of the input priority system in SFV, a simultaneous three kicks input gives you hk. This actually gives you a wider timing window to get the [HK] input when doing it in combos, such as…:
CC f+hp, s.[hk], EX Peach
If you start the charging s.[hk] late in this combo, it’ll whiff and you’ll be leaving a lot of damage on the table. By using this technique you can increase your ability to begin charging s.hk in the earliest timing window, and become more consistent with using it in combos or other time sensitive settings (e.g. using it to CC punish a blocked Cammy Cannon Spike).
EDIT
Fixing the above. At first I’d thought the delay was required for the technique to work, but it’s actually the opposite - a faster input will get you 2 HK inputs. If you wait, the game only reads one.
You actually need to use the fastest timing for the technique to work. If you input…:
s.[hk]~[K+K+K]
too slowly, the game will read the inputs as
hk
lk+mk
probably because it knows you are already holding the [hk]
However, by doing it as fast as possible, you get…:
hk
lk+mk+hk
Do it fast, and the game will read the HK twice, even if you’re still holding it.
This is one thing I’m surprised is an issue for people. I’m not saying it’s easy - but rather that I feel people are using f+mp (aka Passion Press or PP) in the wrong ways, because I can’t see ever having to hit confirm it. I know the option select exists, but I don’t think it’s super practical because I don’t think the applications are practical. The three ways I see f+mp being used are…:
1./ Combo into it off of s.mp
This is the most obvious application of the tool. You don’t need to hit-confirm the f+mp here, because you’re hit-confirming the s.mp. Did s.mp hit? Yes? Good, do f+mp. No? Ok, don’t do f+mp. You’ve got all the time in the world to confirm this off of a jump in, too. This is the main use, and doesn’t require a hit-confirm on the f+mp itself (just don’t do it if your combo starter was blocked).
2./ Whiff punishing/block punishing
f+mp leads to some of Mika’s best resets and corner carry, so any time an opponent puts themselves at -6 or worse, f+mp is going to be a really good option for punishment, especially given the generous forward range. There is no need to hit-confirm here, either. Practice your punishes, and this is just guaranteed damage.
Whiff punishing is a great use of this move, and has some overlap with where I’m going to go with my third suggestion. Basically, if an opponent stuck a button out that didn’t quite reach you, f (or b)+mp, mp can be a snap reaction punish with a great payoff.
Think about it - if you hit them, obviously you’re in a great position as PP is basically the beginning of all Mika’s offense. If you miss, however, then the f+mp should, itself, whiff, and the follow-up doesn’t come out on whiff (only block/hit), so you only have a brief recovery before just being back in neutral. By using PP from a range where it can’t possibly be blocked, you don’t have to worry about hit confirming. Either you punish them, or you whiff and the follow up won’t animate.
3./ Controlling Space
This is the most nebulous use of the move, but also one of the ways you’ll see a player like Fuudo use it the most. f+mp has a great hurtbox/hitbox ratio, with the hitbox (the part of the attack that can hit the enemy) extending quite a bit beyond Mika’s own hurtbox (the part of Mika that can be hit by enemy attacks). In addition to the good hitbox, it has great forward range.
The idea of controlling space with f+mp is to use it in neutral/footsies when your opponent is well outside of the range where f+mp can hit them or be blocked. Sometimes you can just use f+mp at this range to try to preempt or intercept a movement or attack from the enemy. Did the try to dash forward? They dashed into PP and now you get to start your offense. Did they press a button? PP hit their button in startup and now you get to start your offense. Did they try to walk forward and throw? PP caught them walking forward, and now… you get the idea. The best part, though, is that if they did nothing or didn’t come into range, the whiff animation is over quickly. Now, smart players can try to punish this (e.g. wait for you to whiff a PP and whiff punish you instead, try to jump in, etc.). So long as you vary your timing and don’t become predictable, however, PP can be great at controlling the area of the screen just in front of Mika when the opponent isn’t there.
And, again, you just input f+mp, mp. Not hit-confirm required, because either you hit them, or it whiffed and nothing else comes out.
Edit: The only case where I see PP option select tech being useful is after frame-trapping with f+hp. f+hp actually traps into f+mp at +3, so in the corner you can catch people with PP if they try anything but blocking/invincible shit. The hit-confirm is potentially useful here, but PP is -4 even if the second hit doesn’t come out, which is technically punishable by the entire cast. I still prefer trapping into s.mp for this reason (safe on block, can LINK on hit into EX Peach or CA so you have time to hit confirm, and even more if you CH).
Oh b4k4 thank you! I saw the pp s.hk c.mp reset and I noticed you have to do the s.hk as soon as possible. This is going to help me nail that
My obsession with s.hk continues: this might be common knowledge, but after an ex.typoon, you’re just inside max. ch.hk range - walk just a fraction back and you’re out of range.
Coincidence? I think not.
Oh, also, if no one has yet tried s.hk during footsies, try it out. It’s been giving me some success.
^ Charged HK -> Brimstone if they block has been a good one for me.
Got a few meaty setups and safe jumps I’ve been working on the past two days that I’d like to share. I’m not sure how practical or useful these setups are but I figured I should share my knowledge anyways. I’ve only skimmed this thread so some of these setups may already be familiar to you guys. Hopefully most of them are not.
[details=Spoiler]Meaty Setups
Normal Recovery (Quick-Rise)
[list=1]
[] Shooting Peach, forward dash, st.LK: St.LK hits on the third active frame (+3/+4)
[] EX Brimstone, forward dash, st.LP: St.LP hits on the second active frame (+3/+4)
[] EX Brimstone, forward dash, cr.LP: Cr.LP hits on the second active frame (+2/+4). Is safe against 8f reversals: Dhalsim CA (10f), F.A.N.G CA (12f), Nash CA (10f), Rashid EX Spinning Mixer (8f) and CA (8f), Vega CA (9f)
[] LP/MP/HP Rainbow Typhoon, f.HP: F.HP hits on the third active frame (+5/KD). Setup can only be done deep in the corner with R. Mika facing out.
[/list]
Safe Jumps
[list=1]
[] CC cr.HK, dash forward, whiff cr.LP, nj.HP/HK: 4f safejump
[] No recovery Shooting Peach, dash forward, whiff f.MK, nj.HK: 6f safejump. Works against Rashid, R. MIka (Loses to CA), Laura (Loses to CA), Zangief, Nash, M. Bison, Vega, F.A.N.G, Birdie
[/list][/details]
Some dirty tech that no one does: Charged hk, regular throw =P Lets see who techs that.
The safe jump are nice - I don’t think there’s been much (if any) discussion about setups for those yet. I like those ex.brimstone meaties too. Tasty.
After peach, the common options are:
[list]
[] s.mk(counter) > s.lk xx s.mp xx peach/ca
[] s.mp(counter) > f/b.mp xx pp
[*] s.lk(counter) > s.lk xx s.mp xx peach/ca
[/list]
I’ve always been curious how one calculates the frame advantage or disadvantage after a knock-down - do we know how many frames each of the recovery options are?
I use Sean Gilley’s frame data spreadsheet. It’s a great resource. Can’t access it right now, but I know off the top of my head on quick recovery all versions of Wingless Airplane and normal Brimstone have 20 frames of KD, EX has 21, and all versions of Shooting Peach have 23. Back recovery adds 5 additional frames. Not sure about no recovery.
I also want to talk about Fuudo’s f.MK setup. It’s Mika’s best meaty option against opponents that use back recovery after a Shooting Peach knockdown. Against back recovery the f.MK will hit on the 4th active frame and put Mika at +0/+5 instead of the standard (-3/+2). Can be confirmed into st.MP or st.LK xx st.MP on normal hit and st.HP on counter-hit.
I can tell you from my own personal testing that a number of these are inaccurate. For example…:
EX Wingless has less advantage than HK Wingless (not all the same) Edit: Probably also wrong about this? I guess I’m pretty free. I was testing EX Winlgess and having issues getting stuff to work that was working on the HK version, but I think it was more to do with my inputs than the timings.
LP Shooting Peach has less advantage than MP/HP/EX (not all the same) Edit: Turns out I was wrong about this. I’d read they were different somewhere early on, but all versions of SP are in fact the same length of knockdown. You can test because after any SP if the opponent does QR, then dash, c.lk will whiff, but dash, s.lk will hit as meaty as possible (both moves are 4f startup, but s.lk has 3 active frames to c.lk’s 2 active).
Incidentally, this makes me think that frame data for the SP knockdown isn’t right. My math is telling me it should be 25 frames to QR, 30 to BR. I got that number because R. Mika’s forward dash is 18 frames. 18 (dash) + 6 (c.lk 4f startup + 2 active) whiffs completely at fastest timing, but 18 (dash) + 7 (s.lk 4f startup + 3 active) will connect. Is it possible to cancel the last frames of a dash into a normal/other move?
You’re right about back recovery adding 5 frames. I thought it was 3 at first because of some tech I found but it’s actually 5. If you folks are a little patient I’m going to be dropping some knowledge bombs about Mika’s knockdown game sometime soon, and it should address these things. It’s something I meant to do a while ago, but it’s a big-ish project that’s really testing intensive.
Also, I wanted to mention that you probably shouldn’t invest a lot of energy into empty jump timings right now, because the March update is going to give +1 jump startup frames on neutral and backwards jumps. From the state of Capcom’s servers today I’m guessing that will be in effect by tonight.
Pfft, you mean MY f+mk setup (from earlier in this very thread). Lol j/k I don’t really care, and I’m sure Fuudo discovered it on his own (or was totally trolling SRK because I post sweet tech).
That said, the dash -> f+mk pressure option is good as an option select vs. quick and backwards recovery, but there are better options if you know which way they’ll tech. If you know they’re going to backroll after MP/HP/EX Peach, then dash, f+hp will stuff a 3f button and catch them grounded in pre-jump frames. I’d take a f+hp over f+mk any day, on hit or block!
I’m updating my charged s.[hk] double-tap tech above. I’d found this a few days ago and only had the chance to post it today, however I realized I’d gotten one detail wrong:
You actually need to use the fastest timing for the technique to work. If you input…:
s.[hk]~[K+K+K]
too slowly, the game will read the inputs as
hk
lk+mk
probably because it knows you are already holding the [hk]
However, by doing it as fast as possible, you get…:
hk
lk+mk+hk
Do it fast, and the game will read the HK twice, even if you’re still holding it. I said you needed a slight delay for it to work, but it’s actually the opposite - no delay at all is most effective.
Was curious how much white health Mika could rack up with v-trigger and a block string while remaining safe/positive:
[list]
[] j.hp, st.hp (or just cr.hp) xx neutral v-trigger, st.mp, (hit) f+hp. [corner]
[] j.hp, st.hp (or just cr.hp) xx opposite v-trigger, st.mp, (hit), f+hp [mid-screen]
[/list]
Afterwards, she’s +3 (the mid-screen setup looks like it hits meaty). In the corner, you’re at the tip of ex.rt range, within CA range, and just out of ex.bs range. You can buffer the walk forward (hcb+f) throw after f+mp, to be in range for non-ex.bs/rt If they press buttons you’ll probably get hit. You can also frametrap (st.hp is negative, but has a lot of pushback, so very good for st.hp, st.hp frametraps) or replace f+hp with b+mk to be out of range of Gief’s CA. I think the white health this generates could open someone up as well as the fact that you’re still in range for ex.rt if it’ll end the match or you’re okay with forgoing the corner for damage (including white health). You can also frame-trap with b+mk and on CH can combo into CA.
tick-throwing with ex.rt seems to be the most resilient against them pressing buttons since she’s the furthest away.
Setup: Block first attack, with the frame-traps I tested with Ken’s cr.lp and cr.lk
Raw Video below: I’ll do some timestamps eventually so you don’t have to sift through all 20 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leXqLHs9IgI&feature=youtu.be
The knockdown numbers are correct. Your math is off. You’re forgetting that the final frame of startup is also counted as the first active frame, so the sums of cr.LK and st.LK’s startup and active frames are 5 and 6 frames respectively.
Good to know. I’ll probably bring out the f.HP once I can consistently confirm my opponent’s wakeup.
Found it - thanks. Gilley is so good.
I found the f.mk Tech back in October in the betas. Also, I have evolved this tech into better now that I will write up soon, but this option isn’t the best anymore, there is a better meaty
Do I win some kind of forum credit now?
Yes. I tried to give you a cookie but it didn’t work. I think you need to enable cookies on your browser. That might help.
Been lurking in here since day one and I’ve picked up loads of good stuff from people, so thanks.
Just thought I’d share my bit.
JF.hk, St.mp, St.hp xx VT, f+mp, cr.hp
There’s a few options off of this,
The cr.hp leaves you at +3 so you can link into st.lp xx lp peach
363 dmg 611 stun
You could reset straight into a command grab, either after the st.lp or cr.hp
After cr.hp 450 dmg 680 stun
After st lp 459 dmg 701 stun
Lastly you can just cancel the cr.hp into CA
500 dmg 530 stun
Things to note -
-Doesn’t work on gief or birdie due to thier big hurtboxes.
-This must be midscreen doesn’t work in the corner due to not having enough push back.
-Jump HK cannot be exchanged for jump HP due to the push back.
Edit: added damage and stun values.
Not sure if this is known, but no one mentioned it during the conversation we had In Another Thread.
So pp in the corner into: ch.hk > c.mp
Bad if you want to apply pressure with f.hp as it’s interruptable.
Source: https://twitter.com/fubarduck/status/711764669145485312
what 6HP?