we’ve done more collusion in 2 years than we’ve done for net-code in 10 years within the FGC and its 100x easier to fix bad net-code.
why are we so fucking backwards?
col·lu·sion
kəˈlo͞oZHən/Submit
noun
1.
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, esp. in order to cheat or deceive others.
Someone didn’t read the thread. Good job! :tup:
Devil’s advocation for a shitty act that destroys the scene people bankrupt themselves to build for you seems unwarranted. Again I really hope that people criticizing the awkward positions and binds TOs find themselves in go run some tourneys themselves or at least volunteer heartily. If you guys only care enough to heckle, that seems sad and destructive. Get involved and make things better.
Anyways, I’ve already frequently covered that angle: play the same way the whole way through. Or don’t enter. Again, the tournament does not need your pity fuck. Tournaments are already substantial time investments for all concerned. I’m sure more of us will discover girls and family as time goes on: you’re at a tournament to be at a tournament. Every one there has invested something to be there, and we should all be respecting each other end to end period.
Needing to get up in arms or even concerned about douche behavior is weird to me. This rule should be rarely applied and when it does it should be pretty clear. If XXX beats YYY with derpgil but then switches to goofing off with Felicia against a friend or someone on his sponsoring team then you kind of have a problem.
As regards crabe’s concern about the finalists being punished for committing a tournament crime but then changing tactics when caught… don’t start doing something terrible in the first place. Cheating on your GF but then doing right by her next time still leaves you as having done something horrible and disrespectful to the other people involved in the situation. Unless of course she’s down with that, but like most things in life: check with those involved first. As has happened previously in the examples I mentioned where it (one player intentionally picking bad teams) was in fact shot down.
so i am confused. it is illegal now to pick a different character or team when they get to finals since they decided to share the pot.
Unsportsmanlike maybe but it isnt illegal to split pots or pick different chars and teams that you dont usually see them play.
they did not go around messing with people sticks or distracting people as they played
they arent deceiving or cheating, they are just doing whatever the fuck they want to do in the finals that they made it to.
they didnt cheat or deceive their way into the finals now did they.
picking random or whatever is not collusion, splitting the pot is not collusion.
If TOs really want to stop this sort of thing from happening then they need to have players register the chars they will play during the tournament at sign ups. this way when they get to finals they can play who they have registered and no one will bitch.
this shit is stupid though. if these players make it to finals and then choose different chars than they usually play then so be it. you guys who are never going to make it to first or second place seem to care way to much about this shit.
like i said before if TOs dont like this then they need to explicitly state it in their rules that you have to play the same char or registered chars. they have no right to tell the winners what they can and can not do with their money though so thats that.
I’ve said this before:
If the two finalists want to split the prize pot…do it at their own discretion.
Don’t make it fucking obvious by saying on stream that they are just going to fuck around during the grand finals…then actually doing it.
Save that shit for casuals.
In tournament…play like you fucking mean it.
Doesn’t matter if you use your main or alt.
Why is the idea of playing to win so lost on the community?
For “Hype”
And that’s not reason enough to discourage this?
You think it’s only the guys who go 0-2 in a tournament who are mad about this?
And even if it was, so what?
Oh my god, read the damn thread.
Of course winners can do whatever they want with the money, as long as they don’t make a total joke out of GFs.
How many times do we need to tell you that it’s not about splitting the pot. They could split the pot 5 ways to sunday for all we care. All that matters is that they play GFs out.
There’s already a rule against it.
The key words are “intentionally underperforming”. You can have MOV pick Ken in 3S or Infiltration pick Hakan in AE and no one will mind as long as they’re playing the match out properly. But when both players pick the same character that they both normally don’t use and basically start playing an extended button check then you know that something’s up.
There are lots of ways to discourage things, first of all. Is it reason enough to support sanctions against a player? Obviously I don’t think so. But lots of what happens in the FGC would be considered unsportsmanlike in other scenes. You think it’s unsportsmanlike because people have come to expect a show, which IMO is a totally unjustified sense of entitlement. Whatever intentions the TO might have had in organizing the tournament, any “show” that results is ancillary to the main purpose of the event which is the competition between players.
Also it’s clear that the distinction between collusion, pot splitting, and trolling in GF (where there are only two people left in the tournament, so nobody to collude against, so the idea of collusion is a non-sequitur) is NOT clearly understood or acknowledged by some people here.
i like how he completely ignored the word secret in the definition.
Who’s talking about sanctions? I wasn’t, and I don’t think anyone else is. I’m just saying that people should learn to just stop, and that TOs should do what they can to stop it.
Oh my fucking god, I’ve always explained that to you that this is not just about people screaming “WAH WAH ENTERTAIN US WAH WAH”. Have you not read what I told you? Here is it again: Punishing players for Collusion?
Read it.
And by “some people” you are including yourself, correct?
You can actually count me as one of the people getting tired of the word “collusion” (Let’s face it, it’s not the best word to describe all this, we’ll all benefit by using more fitting phrases such as “being a dick”, “disrespecting TOs”, etc.), but really, it should not be so hard to understand how two people in GFs goofing off because they’re friends/brothers/same sponsoring team/etc. is disrespectful to TOs and other players and why it should be curbed.
In this situation your understanding of the disrespect is irrelevant, it doesn’t change the damage done by the action.
The belief that other players are being disrespected or not does not change the fact that they will stop showing up when this type of action happens.
As a TO you would have to be an idiot to allow it because whether you are a “good” TO or a “bad” TO continued thrown matches will put an end to your tournaments due to dwindling attendance.
Just because you paid to enter doesn’t give you the right to be detrimental to the event.
And if you are knowingly being detrimental to the event how is that not disrespectful to other players.
I’m not sure what purpose this thread has if people posting in this thread don’t bother reading what was actually stated by one of the few people capable of speaking to the issue:
Either keep it on topic or this thread is going to be locked. Thanks. :tup:
If TOs were absolutely sure collusion was occurring, then the involved parties should get absolutely nothing. I kind of wonder why this is an issue anyway. I thought prize money alone wasn’t enough to support the average pro player factoring in travel expenses and whatnot. Doesn’t the majority of their money come from teams and sponsors? Also it really shows the poor character of the players when they play like shit just because they know they’ll get paid otherwise.
I believe with the rise of streams and the consent growth of the community, we see said action happening more and we want to keep the competitive spirit alive. (Didn’t like how I worded it but I don’t know to explain it well)
We that in mind, I got a question. Do the majority of players know about this rule or do some simply ignore it?
My apologies, I was trying to communicate in a language that you’d understand and find familiar since you did not understand my first message in proper English. I see that in your confusion you have attempted to reply to my message by going off onto random tangents. Please let me rephrase and explain what I mean by
"Yo dawg, imma jus shit on ur balcony u wurked hard to built. Dun worrie tho, imma letting u noe, so der wunt b any dmg, YKWIS"
is
*‘Greetings, don’t mind me, I am just defecating on your balcony regardless of how much work and pride you have put into it. Please be aware that because I am notifying you of my actions this act will not be damaging the balcony in any way shape or form. YOU KNOW WHAT I’M SAYING?’
*
The use of balcony in this case is an analogy for the whole tournament, not just the grand finals. Shitting on something is a disrespectful act in and of itself, so ‘shitting on the balcony’ is a direct allusion to pretty much disrespecting the tournament and everyone involved by doing dumb shit like what we’re talking about. The notion that because this action is being announced, there would be no damage is entirely having a go at your own notion that because “People were made aware that they intended to split the pot, [how can] therefore there’s [be] damage of some kind?”
To which I will ask, did you even see the rest of the grand finals afterwards? Did you not see how upset Shinsyn, the TO got? Did you see how unhype that GF turned out as a result? Did you not see how instead of match commentary, it was just Shinsyn expressing his disgust at what just happened? Did you not see how his co-commentator try to salvage what was an already fucked GF with the crowd not giving a shit anymore? (Seriously, people just upped and left, it went from a full row of people to empty chairs) Did you not see the two brothers get their pot bonus taken away? Did you not see how uninvolved the match commentary was afterwards? Did you not see that awkward as fuck interviews afterwards? Did you not see how one of the brothers express his fear of not being able to attend again next year? If not, then here you fucking go: http://www.twitch.tv/nobodyexe/b/491082339?t=7h6m5s
That’s the damage done, and I’m sure there’s probably more to be said.
I’ve obviously seen that, I think it’s all on Shinsyn, just like when Spooky pulled the plug on Chris and Sanford, that was just him overreacting, I wanted to see the match lol. People left? Yeah, but people were gonna leave ten minutes later anyway! I get that it is “unhype” but we’ve all seen shitloads of legit unhype grand finals regardless.
To be more clear: Shinsyn, far from deserving props for “doing something about the problem,” really wrecked his own grand finals IMO. CrazyApe: “If we didn’t think they were gonna take our money away, we might have actually played seriously.” That’s all on Shinsyn. And that’s obvious. Far from the “damage being done,” nothing was fucked just because the brothers had made their intentions known, unless you think knowing that they intend to split the pot wrecks the hype in itself. It was an overreaction to a non-problem in my opinion, but as the TO, he had a problem with it, okay, whatever, but he handled it terribly and is the main reason the grand finals were seen as a disappointment.
This is why I have a bit of an issue with those saying, “do what you want with the prize money but give us a hype grand finals.” You are saying you want them to pretend, and to do a good job of it too.
About the balcony thing, I wasn’t say that the fact that they announced their intention to split made it okay. I’m saying it’s okay in the first place and I don’t see exactly WHAT “damage” was done, at what point.
I’m really not trying to go off into random tangents here, I’ve read the rule several times over and always thought the “intentionally underperforming” thing was a real can of worms, because when it gets to GF there is no question of collusion so they shouldn’t be lumped together. And it’s a little annoying how people keep saying “no one is saying blah blah blah so stop saying anyone is saying that,” because yeah, maybe only the idiots are saying that, but people are still saying it.
Here’s the thing. I want to keep the peace in this thread, because right now it’s just two sides repeating the same things over and over with no progress being made. Both sides are in agreement about most things, but disagree about the finer details. What’s missing from practically every post is a solution. I’m sorry, but TOs going crazy and pulling plugs or DQing people out of the blue is not a good message, it’s a sign that there is a problem which requires immediate attention and preventative measures for the future.
In any tournament, doesn’t matter whether it’s fighting games or basketball or whatever, there will be situations where the outcome of the match doesn’t matter. There will also be situations where it’s beneficial for one party to lose. You need to have rules in place to determine what players are supposed to do in these situations, rather than expecting them to adhere to your particular set of ethics, and acting like an insane fool when they don’t. It’s not good enough to make these rules up on the spot. Make sure the players understand before the tournament even begins.
So I just want to be clear here: what should the default rule be? Play your best at all times? Unenforceable. As far as “collusion” goes, the technical term in my professional gaming experience, it only applies to situations where the actions of two (or more) people affect others in the tournament. Thus, collusion cannot ever occur in the grand finals because the result only affects the two players remaining. If you want to use a different definition, fine, whatever, but make the definition clear and consistent without leaving room for interpretation. Every instance of “collusion” in the FGC is basically a case of the players doing what is natural, and other people imposing their ethics onto them. Draw a clear line so that can’t happen anymore.
Maybe somehow, we could get colluders to sit down and talk about why they colluded and through a well mannered conversation address things that caused them to collude. Maybe itll also make them stop picking bad characters to play against each other (the only thing that makes no sense to me at all), if were able to reason with them about that.