^^
Gee I wonder how many innocent people have to die from drunk driving before we make it more difficult to buy alcohol and get a driving license.
Depending on the state, it’s brutal to get a driver’s license. It took me until I was 23/24 to finally get it in NJ.
Bullshit argument. That innocent people die from drunk driving shapes the law appropriately. That innocent people die from mentally-ill citizens having access to (via ownership or theft) weapons they’ve no business having should do the same for gun law and how society treats mental illness.
I’m middle of the road when it comes to gun control, somewhere in between “gun nuts are fucking scum” and “ideologically I don’t like the idea of just banning the things we as a species must learn to live with.” But anyone looking to stay the course when the status quo is proven flawed is an imbecile.
In Connecticut, you have to pass a mental evaluation to own that rifle. Lanza was, in fact, turned away when he wanted to purchase a firearm. He instead stole it from his mother who was a legal gun owner. The one thing I would have given her shit over is how she kept the guns. They should have been in a gun safe.
Indeed.
She also should have never had them. The lady was a “survivalist” preparing for economic collapse – aka, crazy. And even if she wasn’t, it’s arguable she truly needed these dangerous tools stockpiled.
No. Even if these “reports” are real (Chicago Sun-Times and the Independent fail to disclose what reports they are even talking about, and with the amount of faulty information stemming from this to be the first newspaper with huge info I’m not going to believe shit without credible and visible evidence) and she is a survivalist, she can own guns. That doesn’t make her crazy. It makes her see a different view than you do. And it isn’t arguable, it’s her constitutional right to own those guns. She passed all the laws in her state to own them. She, THE WOMAN WHO FUCKING OWNED THE GUNS, didn’t kill anyone. Her deranged son did.
Stop shifting the blame on the mother when she was the first person to eat a bullet.
You’re tip-toeing around the point: just because the law says someone can own something doesn’t mean they reasonably should. The law is not always well-formed, and needs to change to reflect social realities. Like, say, putting assault weapons within arm’s reach of people who’ve no business being near them.
In many a Middle Eastern country, women have (next to) no rights or freedoms. Guess that’s “right” too eh? I mean, their laws are cool with it.
The blame here is not so cut-and-dry. She probably played a role, as does American society as a whole for failing to recognize these legal and social problems the politicians they vote in consistently fail to address. And of course the shooter is to blame too. But if you’re actually going to argue the blame falls entirely, solely on him, and push forward business-as-usual, you’re a fool.
Why does society care what happens with rifles? This is one event. Take the number of rifle owners and let me know how many incidents like these happen and let’s compare that to the number of responsible gun owners. I’ll be stunned, *stunned, *if that number is higher than 1-3%. She was fine with them. You’re trying to shift the blame on the mother instead of the person who committed the crime because he obtained the guns illegally and with that little caveat your side falls apart. So yes, ignore that point and I’ll agree he shouldn’t have guns. But that’s not what happened. The law actually *worked *here because it prevented him from buying a firearm in the first place. He had to resort to stealing one, which isn’t the mother’s fault.
You have a weak base for your argument and try to manipulate the evidence to strengthen your argument. What did society do to make him kill children? He was mentally fucked and society has no affect on people like that. His mother tried to help him but it didn’t work. Not ONE of these people are to blame for what he did. If you try to blame anyone else for what Lanza did you’re being dishonest and trying to find fault where there is none.
And your example is faulty. Owning a gun does not impede on your personal rights as does taking away a person’s rights due to gender. I know I don’t have to explain the differences to you, at least I hope I don’t.
No, we do need stricter gun control, I mean, more than that, of course, but we also totally need that.
There is no goddamn reason why 464 people died in gun related violence in Chicago alone this one year.
Fuck that noise.
Not even talking about this event, let’s talk about how it’s so stupid easy to get a gun in this country.
Not even talking about legally, and yes I know, illegal guns, yeah, but the more gun control law we have have, the easier it would be to get illegal guns off the street.
Chicago only addresses legally obtained handguns. With their handgun ban, they were met with no improvements in gun crime violence and it actually went up. You want to curb gun violence in Chicago? Do something about the illegally obtained guns. No matter how strict your gun laws become, you won’t do shit to criminals who obtain their firearms illegally. You’ll only hamper citizens from an option to defend themselves.
Hey, moving goalposts. This game was getting a tad boring.
This is one event. So is every other event that is, in fact, an event. Not sure what this even means, nor do I care; what’s important is context. So, if this “one event” happens to be the latest of an alarmingly common (prediction: you’re going to dwell on the word “common” for reasons that don’t fucking matter) number of similar events, something is wrong. And something must be done to correct the problem.
Rolling my eyes at the mention of “my side.” It’s like you totally missed the part where I clearly said, “I’m middle of the road when it comes to gun control, somewhere in between ‘gun nuts are fucking scum’ and ‘ideologically I don’t like the idea of just banning the things we as a species must learn to live with’.” Anywho, a misleading argument at best; that he obtained monstrously deadly weapons illegally means fuck all; the person he stole them from arguably should have never had them.
What we have here are two situations that should have never happened:
[LIST=1]
[]His mother had weapons she had no business owning by any reasonable measure;
[]He was mentally ill and clearly not receiving the treatment that being mentally ill warrants.
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I’m not claiming to know what the answer here is, but here’s what it ISN’T: staying the course and saying everything’s fine. Because, again, given the alarmingly common occurrence of mass murder in the United States, it is NOT fine.
Noise at best, idiocy at worst. Society has a huge affect on the mental states of everyone within that society, lest you honestly believe human beings exist in some bizarre vacuum where our environment doesn’t shape our views, ideals, habits, etc.
You want to absolve yourself of responsibility? Lazy. Cowardly. Dumb. You’re a part of the system that ultimately led to this, as am I. Are we guilty of the exact crime Adam Lanza committed? No, of course not. Does it affect us? Abso-fucking-lutely. Does it speak to indifference we might have towards mental illness, as individuals and as a society? Yes. So let’s ask our elected officials to actually discuss this issue and not just chalk it up as another incident.
Also, free advice: I wouldn’t, if I were you, tell anyone their basis for argument is weak. From what I’ve seen, you’re a poor judge of that.
You don’t, because you don’t understand the difference. And here it is: very little. You owning dangerous weapons might well impede my freedom; if you have a short fuse I have to watch what I say, lest I risk you might be one of those dudes who flashes a gun whenever they get slightly pissed.
The ease of which any particular weapon can kill someone must be factored in. Mentioning this because I know it’s going to be your next argument. See also: the far less deadly knife spree in China the same day of the Newtown shooting.
Exactly. If you can I suggest getting your mitts on some 30 round 9mm glock magazines. Those things were a hot commodity even after the first gun/magazine ban.
Also, the first ban didn’t mean shit to most people as they continued to buy sell and trade high-cap mags on the down low.
Why shouldn’t she have owned those guns? The rifle in question is not a military-grade weapon. It’s modified specifically so it isn’t. It’s pretty much a common hunting rifle with a few differences. You’re going to tell me you’re the judge of what she should get because of who she is? I don’t see the point of that. If she likes hunting or firing weapons at a range, it is of no business to you what gun she uses.
I don’t blame society because there’s no real way to blame it. What of society made him go out and fire on all these people? No one has the answer. If you turn on your television or read a newspaper/online blog, people are blaming everything from video games to movies but none of those mediums do not have the job of telling Lanza it’s all just make-believe. That lies squarely with his parents just as his mental health should have been. His mentality is not my responsibility and I share no guilt in that. It wasn’t my job to parent him to become a responsible adult and it isn’t my job to take care of anyone who can’t take care of himself. That’s a convenient excuse to absolve his upbringing and make society feel guilty for what he did. I don’t feel one bit of guilt over what he did because it does not fall on my shoulders.
You’re still trying to belittle the crime of him stealing the guns, which is a big part of why he was able to do what he did. When the law was followed, it’s fine to ignore it. When it’s broken, only some of those laws are even worth mentioning. Seriously, this is the whole picture. She was a responsible and legal gun owner, he was a mentally ill man who decided to steal weapons and kill people. Society did not make him do it, society did not lead him to do it, and it was what it was: a crazy guy going off his rocker.
I’m middle of the road when it comes to gun control, somewhere in between “gun nuts are fucking scum” and “ideologically I don’t like the idea of just banning the things we as a species must learn to live with.” But anyone looking to stay the course when the status quo is proven flawed is an imbecile.
[/quote]
No its not, its a legitimate argument. Both cases have very real consequences, both cases have innocent people dying for no reason other than selfish ones, and both cases have deranged manics doing it. Only a deranged mentally ill individual would think that its a good idea to drive home drunk, just like a deranged mentally ill individual thinks its alright to go with a big bang.
And no, imbecile? Please, Connecticut already has some of the toughest laws in the nation and that did nothing to prevent the deaths of 27 people. Making it harder to obtain guns isn’t going to stop Juan from shooting up Treyvon and his “krew”.
And stop using the term Assault Weapons, none where used, and those that are issued to the people by the government are handled by people with excessive money to spend due to taxes, or law enforcement. Its akin to saying “We didn’t evolve from monkeys” in an argument about evolution.
And laugh out loud at being a survivalist warrants the label insane. Diamonds aren’t forever, and neither is the comfort of your relative peace in America.
People keep mentioning he stole a weapon… but it seems to me like it was just lying around in the home.
An easily accessible weapon combined with a mentally disturbed kid, seems like some terrible parenting to me, and that someone else in the house had mental issues
Sure if the guy was a child.
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Lol at gun control. What is that exactly? The manufacturers controlling the rate at which they flood a country with their firearms or their share holders controlling the so called laws the allow them to flood a country with their firearms? Niggas got yacht maintenance fees to pay, they can’t afford for their portfolios to take a nose dive because of few kids died THIS week.
Instead of arguing over this trivial shit why don’t we all educate ourselves on shit that really matters.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304871704575159902263126816.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2011/09/13/yachtings-hidden-costs/
http://www.yachtownersdirect.com/yacht_charter_fees_cost/yacht-charter-fees-a-cost.html
http://www.travelintelligence.com/travel-writing/hey-big-spender-luxury-yachts
I think it’s interesting that we haven’t had any major culture shift following these kinds of repetitive mass shootings. After 9/11, our entire culture changed. Laws were passed that infringed the rights of millions of Americans and nobody batted an eyelash about the passage of it, it just happened. I would think habeas corpus being thrown out has a greater impact on our lives than gun ownership.
Are we waiting for the body count of mass shooting to approach that of 9/11 to make a change?
Because killing sand Niggers is more important than your rights. Oh and because we didn’t have a nigger pres back then, interrupting our football!!!
You think that a crazy guy shooting a bunch of kids in a kindergarten school isn’t a good enough reason to legitimize a conversation about revising our gun laws?