Most modern HDTVS do not suffer from image enhancement processing lag which is why I didn’t even think to mention it. That is generally a fault with older HDTVs, or cheaper HDTVs. Certainly wouldn’t expect it from Panosonic, but of course yes it is possible.
Modern HDTVs tend to have less lag than they used to. The lag was so bad that people had to buy audio delay units (until manufacturers started putting delay options in receivers) to sync up the audio with the picture. Now the lag is less, and people tend not to notice, even many gamers. TVs have game modes to help reduce the lag, but it does not eliminate the lag. Most HDTVs still lag by more than 1 frame.
Is there a way to test if there is shitty input lag other than trying to land combos in training mode? What’s embarassing is that nobody felt any lag at the tournament when they played, they all used stick and I was the only one who used pad, so I don’t know if that matters. I guess I won’t ever find out why I fucking lagged so bad at the tournament, which I won’t ever go to again. Whether it was my fault or theirs, aint gonna drive 2 hrs just to mash on buttons to get them to come out.
Scaling issues aside, PS3 USB ports add 2 frames of lag on anything that goes through them. You can avoid this by playing on an official Dual Shock 3 wireless pad or by hacking the DS3 PCB into your arcade stick. But wireless is banned at Evo so you just have to accept the extra lag there.
I was using a PS3 dual shock pad dude… and it still lag like a mofo. I thought it was the tv but everybody else was fine except me, so it couldn’t be. Then I assumed it was the controller cuz it needed to recharge cuz the red like was flashing. But it couldn’t have caused lag cuz I had a usb charger for the controller so I couldn’t have lagged. I can’t seem to figure out the problem. I think I’m gonna use a different pad or find out what pad wolfkrone or inthul uses and go from there.
You got a source on that? We all know about the 1 frame (some debate 2 frame) extra lag on PS3 SF4 vs 360, but I haven’t seen anything showing that the USB ports themselves on PS3 incur additional lag. This seems to contradict other tests that have been done including Toodles’ Cthulhu vs. SIXAXIS test.
No I’m not wrong, you just said it yourself “modren HDTVs tend to have less lag than they used to” which is basically what I said just worded slightly differently. Yes Image processing lag was quite serious, some even complained of as much as a second or two of delay. Hence why I said “modern HDTVS do not suffer from image enhancement processing lag”… meaning they don’t have serious amount of lag which can damage the gaming experience.
Obviously all HDTVs lag to some degree. I have read up on HDTVs input lag and display lag quite a bit. So I’m not sure why you’re trying to lecture on how HDTVs work. But your certainly not telling me anything new here which I have heard before. Even the monitor I’m using which is one of the most responsive TFTs monitor still has some lag, a little under half a frame. The only way to bypass delay for certainty is to go CRT.
What I’m saying is the OP is complaining of input delay to the degree that it effects his game, likely hoods are it’s not his TV. And if it is his TV it’s probably not worth considering a replacement for possibly a few less ms.
What he should be concentrating on anyway is joystick timing not response timing from the TV. Because there’s no way to be in a situation where you will always be playing on a TV set which has the response time which you’re suited to. You can get use to a 5ms response time on your tv set, and then go and play at a tournament and that tournament has a TV set with 14ms response time, if you don’t know the timing for the combos on the joystick and depending on display then you’re screwed.
One thing i use do in SSF4 when I use to play it, is to practice tight links without looking at the TV set at all, and get use to the sound of the button presses on the joystick to complete tight frame link combos. Then going online I would just mash out the links based on the timing and sound of the sanwas, and not what is shown on the screen. That is why sanwas make noise anyway, not just to annoy the neighbours but the sound is also a guide to completing moves.
You have got to be kidding me. HDTVs lag significantly, like 2 frames or more, very commonly. If you’re saying that playing on any modern HDTV vs a known lag-free monitor won’t “effects his game” you are flat out incorrect. If your display lags more than 2 frames you will be whiffing simple jump-in 2-hit combos in ST.
Plasmas do not generally lag two frames, which is what 60ms?. Large LCD screens, yes, but plasma are a different ball game. Look at the table chart I posted, they state the Panasonic 42" plasmas they tested had 8ms, not even half a frame. You going to tell me DigitalVersus is wrong and you’re right? They test all their review sets up against CRTs, they even post the videos up on Youtube.
You also implied that a TV would not lag because it was using ‘game mode’.
You also posted a chart (from here) that shows response times, but continue to refer to it as though it shows display or input lag. The response time of a display (LCD, plasma, CRT, or otherwise) has nothing to do with how long it takes the game console’s output to get to the screen.
No I said modern TVS do not suffer “IMAGE PROCESSING LAG”… as in big time lag, from over use of image processing. Which could be anything up to a whole second of delay or more. Obviously anything which is not CRT will have some lag, even the best sets and monitors. Why would I post a table chart where it clearly shows the best TV/monitor sets on the chart still have some lag (4ms) and then say HDTVs have “ZERO” lag. That would mean I’m contradicting myself, basically you’re taking my words out of context to suit your needs.
Response time is what matters when it comes to judging a HDTV set for gaming. The OP questioned his plasma set for gaming, I was simply stating the likely hoods are his TV set is stellar and probably doesn’t need replacing. Obviously how long it takes for the games console output to get on the screen can come down to many things, such as the controllers PCB, the controller, how the game was coded, the console, and how the TV is set up.
The thing is though Plasmas have always been known for fast response, their technology for response time is better than LCD. Even the fastest LCDs which are quoted at “1ms” are not as fast as a plasma. THey’re almost up there with CRT. The only excuse for a plasma not reaching low response is either it’s a budget made tv and a poor brand. Or the TV is not set up for gaming. His TV is clearly set up for gaming if it has “game mode” meaning any lag inducing image enhancements can be removed or lowered. So IMO he has nothing to worry about when it comes to his TV. It might not be as fast as the EVO monitors or it might be as fast ( I don’t know), but more than likely I’m betting it’s not “two frames slow”. even the Samsung LCD TV I use for casual gaming and blue ray, which doesn’t even have a “game mode” is not two frames slow but more like a little over one frame and a half.
I disagree. An input in this case is the Input to the TV. Therefore what I said was correct: it is a form of input lag. My question was what the table you posted was: I asked if it was input lag or response times.
Obviously HDTVs do STILL suffer from image enhancement processing lag, else we’d all be buying the latest TVs and not worrying about the minimal lag monitors like the Evo Asus, etc. It’s lower for sure, but it’s still there.
1/60 x 2 = 0.03s, but yes, I agree with the fact that a company is now testing it, which is great.
Thinking about this logically, and perhaps dispensing with the hand-bags for a bit…
We know that the OP has a TV, an XBox and a PS3. We also know that the OP has an SE (xbox) and a TE (ps3). We don’t know what he is connecting with, but we could surmise that it’s HDMI, as he said earlier that he was thinking of moving the PS3 to composite.
So, presuming that both the HDMI input connectors work at the same amount of lag, the issue could be to do with the display settings on the consoles - I’m going here on the fact that despite his screen only being able to support 720p/1080i, he’s getting some output somwhere saying that it’s running in 1080p input.
We’re all fairly sure that an SE and a TE don’t introduce lag to the equation (I’ve certainly not seen anyone suggesting this thus far).
Finally, we know there are reports of the PS3 being 1f slower than the Xbox.
OP - does your TV also report it’s running in 1080p input when the Xbox is on, or does it report 720p? Also, have you switched the cables round to see if that helps?
When you start talking frame differences as small as “one frame” it really starts getting ridiculous though, because there are so many variables which come into play. I usually try not to get into these kind of discussions because it never really ends in any form of conclusion, because as I said small differences in frames…it could be down to anything, it’s like looking for a needle in a hay stack …
Some examples…
Is the OP perhaps imagining the EVO monitors were a bit faster? Maybe the adrenaline of being at a tournament made him not recognize the extra one frame of input delay which the PS3 is supposed to have over the 360.
If he had been playing on the pS3 for a month, and then switch TV sets and complained of input lag. Then maybe there’s some evidence there to investigate his TV set for lag. But to just play on the EVO monitors at a tournament once, and then go back to your home and suddenly think your monitor is lagging…
Does he have everything set up correctly. Is he sure he should be using HDMI on his monitor? IS his pS3 settings right… IS he TV set up right etc etc yada yada.
Maybe he’s having a off day. Don’t wan’t to sound patronizing but no one can play at the same efficiency every day. Especially when it comes to one frame links.
I take this test often http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php . And my results vary. Sometimes I get in the 150 range, some days I get about 170-180. I mean that’s a whole one frame difference right there from one day to the next. And that’s my brain lagging not my monitor.
it’s easy to mess up one frame links, especially if he just switched from Xbox360 to PS3, that is all the excuse someone needs really… Maybe he was landing them at NCR, I would put that down to adrenaline personally, that little bit of adrenaline could up your reaction time by quite a bit (thus negating the PS3 native 1 frame input delay).
Try putting the 360 in 720p mode and see if it seems any different. PS3 SSF4 still outputs in 720p, even when you have the console set to 1080p in the menus.
FWIW, the PS3 version of SSF4 always feels laggier to me, even on perfectly good displays, and I primarily play on PS3. Maybe at the tournament you were just on point, like Karas was saying.
OK so can i ask this? Whats the preferred monitor? I hear people say Asus vh236h but then i also hear alienware optx 22 something… seems to be mixed reports on the alienware though
