(PS3 Base) Project: Arcade Pad (PAP) - In need of wirers

[Giniro_Shourai]

How do you hold the controller now? How would you like to hold the controller?
How do you sit when you play? Do you sit on the floor or in a chair or stand?
Besides the use of the shoulder buttons, are there inputs or input combinations that are particularly difficult?
Do you care about vibration?
You mention that your ability to use your left hand is limited. What sort of input do you want to do with it – a single button, two buttons, a 4-way stick, an analog stick, nothing, or something else?

I currently hold the controller like this, and it is how I want to:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4930/unled3bc.jpg

(This is an old and crappy pic. The black thing is my seatbelt)
Copypasta because I already had it typed up: *Growing up on the NES, I tried a number of controllers, from the standard one to a flight stick, the latter I ended up sticking with until my NES finally died. A few years later, I got a Game Boy for Christmas. In the beginning learning how to play it was difficult, having not spent much time with the standard NES controller. *

*But after a while I figured out to turn it sideways on a table or my lap so the directional pad was towards my stomach and the A and B buttons were towards my knee. I would use the d-pad with my thumb and press A, and B with my index finger or middle finger. This technique has stayed with me ever since; regardless of whether it’s console or handheld, it’s the way I play. I’ve had to make a few changes to adapt the ever-evolving button layouts, but the basic positioning stays the same. *

I’m confined to a wheelchair.

Aside from L3 and R3 as I previously mentioned, there are really no inputs or input combinations that are particularly difficult. As far as FGs go, aside from SC, my main problem is my reflexes. For example, right now, SF’s input timng is too strict for me. I just need to improve my reflexes, and I’d like to do so on my own, if that makes sense.

I do not care about vibration.

I want this controller to be controlled with just my right hand

[Muffman]

Would this work?

Small wood case, like rtdzign mini cases. Except instead of rectangular, a circle. Still flat on top and bottom like the original mini case. Grip on bottom, like the original, to prevent slipping while in the lap. Could even make side hooks to attach to the seat belt so doesn’t fall for serious mashing sessions(looking at you mvc3). 24mm buttons grouped very close together. Except instead of an arcade joystick, install a analog stick from a ps3 controller. Just the thumb could control that, and place it close to the 24mm buttons so the hand naturally lays on the stick with the thumb on the analog stick, and the index, middle, and ring finger on the first set of 3 24mm buttons. Then place a second set of 24mm buttons above the first set. These sit above and not below cause should be easier to turn the hand counter clockwise than clockwise to access the second set, since the thumb stays on the analog stick. Here’s the world most lamest paint attempt. Sorry if this doesn’t help at all, just wanted to try. = p

edit: oh, and stick a start button on the side, 7 buttons and a stick is all that most my sticks have. = ]

pps: renaming this thread might get more help and feedback. Like “Project help a dude out” idk… i need more sleep…

[Rufus]

Ok, How does this look as a concept? (Imagine it as the top view of a box.)

The idea here is that you run the d-pad or analog sticks with your thumb, and then use index through pinkie finger on the red, blue, and green buttons. The intent is that the red ones should be about right if you’re using the thumb on the d-pad or the left analog stick. The green ones are in case some game designer decides that left analog + dpad is a good idea, and the blue ones are for when you want have your thumb on the right analog stick. There’s also a good number of buttons available for thumb and index on left and right analog sticks respectively.

Keep in mind that the buttons can be mapped to directions, so you can have capability comparable to d-pad + right analog stick by mapping some of the red and blue buttons to directions, though, really, that calls for another row of buttons for easier direct access to all four shoulder buttons, or, alternatively, some analog-to-analog remapping so you can use the left analog stick instead.

FWIW, I’m inclined to agree with Toodles that your thinking might be a little constrained. When you say ‘custom one-handed controller’, I tend to think on the scale of something like this: http://benheck.com/03-16-2008/new-single-handed-controller . (Toodles was actually thinking of fancier stuff, but…) That said, if something simple or conventional is a good fit, that’s even better because it means lower costs, and easier repairs.

[Giniro_Shourai]

It is tricky, for the exact reasons you’re thinking of. The tech to convert it is simple, but he has to either pick a single way to do it and suck it up for the games that that conversion method isn’t beneficial, or use another input to select which conversion method to use, possibly with another input to adjust the sensitivity.

Would you please explain that last part?

Giniro, taking trackball inputs and trying to convert them to analog stick inputs, totally doable. Problem is, there’s multiple ways to do it, absolutely none of which are what you might consider perfect. Easiest way to describe the it is any standard FPS that uses one stick for movement, and the other for looking. If you wanted the ‘look’ stick to act like a trackball on a PC does, then turning 90 degrees to the left is a simple matter of turning the ball left by some degree. When the ball stops moving, you stop turning. Using that same conversion with the ‘move’ stick, if you wanted to walk forward, you’d have to keep spinning the ball over and over again, otherwise you’d stop walking, just like you stopped turning in the ‘look’ example.

Yeah, I use my aforementioned adapter mostly for Shooters. With it, the right stick is permanently mapped to the mouse, or in my case the trackball, as look. I can map aim and fire to the left and right mouse button respectively. It is thanks to this that I can now play games that I coudn’t otherwise. Such as Mass Effect 2, LA Noire and Red Dead Redemption. Like I said, the only real problem is that every so often (anywhere from 30 minutes of use, and up), the adapter stops working, which also disconnects the controller. To fix it, I have to turn the PS3 off then back on again. Quite annoying.

I want to keep the mouse/look function intact so I can continue playing other games, without being limited.

The left stick, I don’t want any changes made to, other than maybe location.

That said, the other way would not work.

You’ve said that you can only use maybe half of a regular gamepad, and then your design is a picture of a pad with a trackball attached. I’m seriously concerned you’re still trying to conform to a standard controller, instead of embracing the idea of a controller that embraces you and what you can do.

I don’t remember or see me saying that. If by “half,” you mean just the front, then yes you are correct. However, like I said, those are just rough concept mock-ups. I can use the front of a controller just fine, but not the shoulder buttons. This is why I prefer the MadCatz Pads for FGs, and for some other games – because I have access to some of the shoulder buttons. I added the trackball because I know it’s something I can use. The first pic, I went for a FightPad feel, but that may be too wide for me to play FGs on.

[Giniro_Shourai]

hey Guys, i’m not a builder or anything, but i just wanted to post a (sad looking since i can’t draw) mock up of how i think a controller for Giniro would look like. It’s also got a wii nunchuku like attachment for the left hand, not sure if it’s useful but i threw it in anyways. Once again, please excuse the lame drawing…i’ll try to sketch something better tomorrow.

Chuu, honestly, that isn’t a bad design. Reminds me of a flight stick. My only problem with it is that I don’t have the dexterity to move the sticks and/or press the buttons on the side.

Would this work?

Add 2 more buttons on the top (a 8-button layout) and yeah it would work as a FG pad, but like I’ve previously said, I want to be all purpose. So I’d need 2 sticks (or something) and a d-pad

Ok, How does this look as a concept? (Imagine it as the top view of a box.)

One glaring problem I see is that I play “sideways” to other players, so this layout wouldn’t work. Perhaps rather than having them ontop, you could put the sticks and such with the color buttons?

FWIW, I’m inclined to agree with Toodles that your thinking might be a little constrained. When you say ‘custom one-handed controller’, I tend to think on the scale of something like this: http://benheck.com/03-16-2008/new-single-handed-controller . (Toodles was actually thinking of fancier stuff, but…) That said, if something simple or conventional is a good fit, that’s even better because it means lower costs, and easier repairs.

“FWIW”? For What It’s Worth? Never saw that acro until now so I’m not sure if that’s what it means.

As for BenHeck’s Access, I had one but 1) it was too big for my hand, 2) it was still a standard disabled controller – No 2 people have the exact same disabilities, and 3) USB support was taken away.

My thinking may be a little constrained, but up until now, I’ve always use conventional/standard controllers, so I’m used to the spacing, although I do prefer the spacing on the FightPads. So, if we use a conventional/standard controller (even a FightPad) as a base, I’d still be in my comfort zone, plus lower costs, and easier repairs.

That said, I’m always open to other ideas, both in and outside my comfort zone.

[abandonist]

I’m seeing that you’d like the controller to be only used by your right hand, but up above you said you have at least some use of your left. Can you use any of your fingers? It’s worth it even if it’s just one, as splitting some of the input to your other hand could be a revelation for you (and is entirely doable). For example even if you can only use your pinkie finger, the left analog by itself could be sent to a singular analog stick that you could use with your pinkie while controlling the rest with your right hand.

Don’t concern yourself with the cost of whatever it is that you need. Try to think of what the ultimate controller is for you. Think outside of conventional stuff - think total custom. Write that up and we’ll work from there. There are ways to make things cheaper if necessary, but it may be something that’s doable at a reasonable price.

[Muffman]

Adding two more buttons is no prob. I’m just used to 6. But same design and you would have a bad ass fight stick. I think in the end tech talk will get this figured out. And it’s awesome so many ideas. I’m still brainstorming, however, as of now, to me it just seems a little impractical to make one controller to rule them all? I think at minimum you should have 2 controllers. Like one similar to the one i proposed for old school games, fight games, shoot’em up, side side scrollers… and then another controller for FPS and racing games for example. For an FPS controller i think the best solution would be something like this but right handed and modified.

Plenty of buttons to assign all the various FPS commands, four of the buttons will be directionals, and the analog on the side for aiming. I personally think if you make just one, you might be a little disappointed, but if you get two and divide up the game genres and make the controllers more specialized, you’ll reap the benefits. Funds shouldn’t be an issue since it seems like you have donors. Also if you make two, you can do one now, and then the other a bit later if needed. The wood custom fight stick shouldn’t be too expensive.

[Rufus]

Yeah, FWIW = for what it’s worth.

I think I understand what you mean when you ‘sideways’. I was thinking something like this:
EDIT: Removed clobbered image.

As for BenHeck’s Access, …

That was unclear -I wasn’t talking about the access - I meant the Xbox controller that’s lower on the page.

[d3v]

One thing I’ve been wondering though, wouldn’t it be better to have genre specific controllers? A layout suited for Street Fighter and/or other fighting games might not be suitable for other genres.

[Giniro_Shourai]

I’m seeing that you’d like the controller to be only used by your right hand, but up above you said you have at least some use of your left. Can you use any of your fingers? It’s worth it even if it’s just one, as splitting some of the input to your other hand could be a revelation for you (and is entirely doable). For example even if you can only use your pinkie finger, the left analog by itself could be sent to a singular analog stick that you could use with your pinkie while controlling the rest with your right hand.

I can use my fingers, but I can’t accurately control them. This is why I play with just my right. If anything, speaking from 27 years of experience, trying to use my left will only hinder me.

Don’t concern yourself with the cost of whatever it is that you need. Try to think of what the ultimate controller is for you. Think outside of conventional stuff - think total custom. Write that up and we’ll work from there. There are ways to make things cheaper if necessary, but it may be something that’s doable at a reasonable price.

To me an ultimate controller is one that gives me access to the whole controller, therefore giving me the ability to play any game I want. Turbo? Sure. Macros? Nothankyou.jpg. I have other ideas, although I don’t know feasible they are.

For example:
A PS3 accelerometer made into a clip so it can be hooked onto my glasses or hat, so I can play (just as an example) Siren, Folklore, High Velocity Bowling, etc
I was going to say maybe making the right stick into an accelerometer with a clip, but as I thought about it, I realized it wouldn’t work because If I turned my head to face the TV after turning right, it would turn left, canceling the right turn.
A “Hold” function. Like in Okami, you had to hold a shoulder button to use the brush. I can’t do that.

[…]as of now, to me it just seems a little impractical to make one controller to rule them all? I think at minimum you should have 2 controllers. […] I personally think if you make just one, you might be a little disappointed, but if you get two and divide up the game genres and make the controllers more specialized, you’ll reap the benefits. Funds shouldn’t be an issue since it seems like you have donors[…]

One thing I’ve been wondering though, wouldn’t it be better to have genre specific controllers? A layout suited for Street Fighter and/or other fighting games might not be suitable for other genres.

I get what you 2 are saying, and you are correct, but will the community be so kind as to make me more than one controller?

And I have one better for you, Muffman

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7650/ps3onehandedcontroller.jpg

Only problem is this is 80 Pounds (about $160USD) + customs etc

I think I understand what you mean when you ‘sideways’. I was thinking something like this:

If I’m understanding how your idea works, It would have to be something like this for me to be able to use it.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6198/buttons4h.jpg

That was unclear -I wasn’t talking about the access - I meant the Xbox controller that’s lower on the page.

Ah, that. Like I told Chuu, I don’t have the dexterity to move the sticks and/or press the buttons on the side.

[abandonist]

I think we’ll be able to make you 2 controllers - and it’s probably better for you in the long run because they can be designed better to perform specifically without having to worry about the other form.

Since it’s what the forum is all about let’s focus on getting you a fight controller first.

If I’m understanding right, you’ll be using your thumb for the joystick movements and your other right fingers for the button presses? Is an analog nub the most comfortable option for you? Would 24mm buttons be an option to keep everything more compact, or would you prefer the standard 30mm?

[Toodles]

If the

And I have one better for you, Muffman

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/7650/ps3onehandedcontroller.jpg

Only problem is this is 80 Pounds (about $160USD) + customs etc

If the price is the ONLY problem, fuck it, buy one.

[abandonist]

Yeah dude, I’ll order it for you right now if it’s just a matter that you can’t afford it.

Then we can work on making you an “arcade stick” of some sort.

[Giniro_Shourai]

If I’m understanding right, you’ll be using your thumb for the joystick movements and your other right fingers for the button presses? Is an analog nub the most comfortable option for you? Would 24mm buttons be an option to keep everything more compact, or would you prefer the standard 30mm?

You are correct. I’ll be using my thumb for the joystick movements and my other right fingers, specially my index and middle fingers, for the button presses. I’m not sure how big 24 and 30mm are, but if I had to guess, I’d say the MCZ Fight Pads have 30mm?

If the price is the ONLY problem, fuck it, buy one.

Yeah dude, I’ll order it for you right now if it’s just a matter that you can’t afford it.

I’m not sure that’s the only problem. The spacing looks a little too tight. I’d be using my thumb for the left stick and my other right fingers for the buttons.

Oh and I need L3 and R3

[abandonist]

Just to make sure I’m reading you right, you need L3 and R3 as dedicated buttons? I’m fairly certain they’re on that other controller the way they are on standard pads - as a click of the nub.

Would it be better if the analog stick was on the side and the buttons on top, or all on the same plane?

30mm buttons are the standard size on an arcade stick. 24mm are the standard size for the start/select buttons on the top of the stick.

24mm would probably be better to keep it more compact for your hand I’d imagine.

[Giniro_Shourai]

Just to make sure I’m reading you right, you need L3 and R3 as dedicated buttons? I’m fairly certain they’re on that other controller the way they are on standard pads - as a click of the nub.

Would it be better if the analog stick was on the side and the buttons on top, or all on the same plane?

30mm buttons are the standard size on an arcade stick. 24mm are the standard size for the start/select buttons on the top of the stick.

24mm would probably be better to keep it more compact for your hand I’d imagine.

Are we talking about my fight controller in 1? Or the other controller? If we’re talking about the other controller:

1. You are correct. I need them as dedicated buttons. For example, in Demon’s Souls, Lock-On was L3, and in MW2, R3 was the melee knife.
2. It would it be better if they were all on the same plane
   3&4) I’ve never used an arcade stick before. I’ve only used a standard controller, and the MCZ Fight/Brawl Pad http://kotaku.com/5816019/the-wwe-all-stars-mad-catz-brawl-pad-a-guest-review

[Rufus]

From the description, I initially thought you played something like this (with your elbow at your side)

But now I’m guessing you actually play more like this (with the elbow pointing out):

And so you might have imagined a controller that looks more like this:

With the all four of the shoulder buttons, as well as L3 and R3 available on the ‘right hand side’ of the face of the controller, and the right analog stick moved to the left so that it can also be actuated with the thumb while the other fingers can still hit face buttons.

[Giniro_Shourai]

But now I’m guessing you actually play more like this (with the elbow pointing out):

You are correct on this one. As you can now see, I have pretty good access to a standard controller, but some parts are out of my reach.

And so you might have imagined a controller that looks more like this:[…]With the all four of the shoulder buttons, as well as L3 and R3 available on the ‘right hand side’ of the face of the controller, and the right analog stick moved to the left so that it can also be actuated with the thumb while the other fingers can still hit face buttons.

Yeah, this is what I want out of an “arcade pad,” although L3 and R3 aren’t needed on this one. I need those on my other pad.

On my arcade pad, I want a 8-button layout, so I can (if I play SF4) map Focus, :3p:, :3k:, etc to them. I want to stay away from macros because they won’t help me get better. In fact, they’ll make me cheap. I want to work on my reflexes, not push a button to be Mr. Masters

[Muffman]

Well if we can make the belkin n52te speed pad work(pic I posted) that would be awesome, cause its only 29.95 on ebay with 6.95 shipping, and even cheaper used. I think for pc it wouldn’t even need to be modded for you to use, I think the only modding(if it can be done) needed is to make it work on a ps3(that what system we’re working with?). The custom wood fight stick we can prob get people from tech talk to help build and people to help donate for the costs, so I don’t think getting you two controllers should be a problem. I’m down with donating. The more people we get together to donate the cheaper it will be. After reading what you, and especially Akazukin ChaCha have written, I’m sure we can get some people behind this. = ]

[abandonist]

I’m thinking something the size of rtdzign’s travel cases with 24mm buttons and an analog nub right next to the buttons.

Giniro, you should look at some button layouts and print a few off. Tap at the paper with your fingers to see what style fits your fingers the best.

http://slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html