Noel is an annoying as shit. Our local Noel player is doing a good job making no one want to play this game.
If you’re Hakumen 5C is good. Generally anything with a phat hitbox can work against Noel’s main mash options (Ragna’s Dead Spike or 5D to name a few) but Hakumen’s has the benefit of being fast and quite long so it’s safer to throw out.
Safer to control space than to go for overhead/low kind of mixups unless said options have good hitboxes. You know how funky Noel’s shit can be when let’s say 2D can arch over Haku’s 5B which is normally an excellent poke that has decent antiair properties. So yeah chuck the big stuff out, even if the reward on block isn’t too fantastic.
Sorry, but the fact that they literally broke litchi game in CS2, makes me wonder what kind of balancing they tried to do.
I played litchi but I was hoping that no one would be too much overpower. But now is CT->CS1 all over again.
The top tiers become low tiers and new 3 characters will be the undisputed top tier.
Seriously, perhaps arc should give capcom a call to balance the game.
Litchi is still a solid character. The tiers are not that far off from each other. Capcom balance a game that is funny. Someone should hire you to be a comedian.
CT is the best version by far. Everyone had tools to win. Zoning was strongest but those zoners didn’t have an invincible dp either to get you off them. They had to burst or take 50% damage.
CS everyone had tools but fuck it Bang Valk and Litchi were heads and heels over everyone else in terms of neutral gameplay. Which meant they dominated the whole game until they got hit.
CS2 something went wrong in balance. Rushdown and frametraps are now top because lol instant block nerf. The dumbest nerf you can do to the game of course. Now instead of being rewarded for instant blocking with a reversal I’m condemned to being counterhit because now it is far too easy to create a safe string.
Litchi is still a solid character, ok that’s a fact. But for that me (and possibly 90% of people that mained litchi) will have to re-learn to play with her almost completely.
The fact that 41236 + D isn’t cancelable in a normal combo kills most of her combos that had been used since CT. Also, now most people will have to use hand-to-hand with Litchi mostly instead of using both stances is killing what made her game any fun.
Also beyond other characters I just can affirm that Noel just got much, much better with some combos dealing 6-7k.
It’s still too early to talk about tiers, but I really doubt it that this will be balanced. I expect that within a few months, 2-3 characters will be much overpowered if compared to the rest of the cast.
I agree mostly with Heroic_Legacy, CS needed some balancing (litchi,bang,valk being overpowered. Noel, Tsubaki being underpowered, etc) but with CS2 something went very very wrong.
About Capcom, they done a good job balancing SSF IV (please desconsider MvsC3 here).
According to Japanese tier lists there isn’t a clear LOL OP CHARACTER in CS2.
But it’s really really hard to stop Hazama Makoto and Noel from running you over.
If anything about balance, Mori should consult Daisuke. GGAC was balanced.
Could you bring this tier list here ?
I still think it’s too much early to have a good tier list, probably things will change in the following months
Ok I’m a Litchi main, Yes we have to little or more relearn our character every game, Yes it’s annoying that we have to do that, NO she is not bad, just because we don’t have easy sauce Ittsu Loop doesn’t mean she’s completely worthless, shes always had a weak defensive game, poor AA game, she does have a strong offensive, 6D+ on block, safe pokes, good block strings, yeah her overhead game can be weak at times and obvious to catch but her pressure between herself and staff works really well now, that the staff cancels faster, you should do more research before you start complaining, yeah noel is a joke easy and harder to punish her drives, but they can still be punished, learn to play litchi better, before you start saying she’s horrible just cuz you couldn’t figure out how to play with her anymore, watch some videos or something, that or sit in training mode. As far as I see it CS2 is only f’d up in the aspect that Grabs have insane priority I’ve been grabbed out of a 2A or 5A after my move is still in hit frames, that and grabbed out of midair by some characters whos grab ranges have been extended, it’s too easy to put people in the corner since thats what most combos do now, force opponents to the wall. Hazama needs a dmg nerf, Makoto is a rush down character, I can understand her need to be fast, but her corner traps are nearly impossible to get out of w/o 50 heat or a burst being used, Noel shouldn’t have an automatic 1k finish on Fenrir part 2 thats just dumb, a lot of characters got that buff automatic 1k or w/e guarenteed dmg on a combo ender with a distortion, they’ve f’d up some things and fixed others, also I understand balance is an issue, but you forget GG is in what it’s idk 9th or 10th itteration? I’d assume after 12 years they could balance a game pretty well, SF4 is more or less SF2 with more characters, and EX focus is a joke for the people who couldn’t parry, imo SF3 was the balanced one, still as far as balance goes these things take time, look at the original GG or HnK and see them wack ass combos, we should be thankful the first BB wasn’t even close to that. Give it time eventually BB might be as balanced as GG but you have to keep in mind, with characters like Tager who has Voltec Charge and can pull his opponents towards him he’s a grappler who has to do half the work of others(as in Zangeif), so as far as this thread goes I don’t want to see a single tager complaint.
Also @Seph The Top 3 of CS2 is Makoto, Hazama and Noel in that order,
Makoto is self explanitory that she has corner traps with her projectile for opponents that forces neutral teching, which allows her to keep a near endless pressure on her opponents, 3f jab can stop anyone from being able to jump away from her, she can easily do 4k almost anywhere on the screen, and once again corner traps for resets.
Hazama he’s pretty much the same as his CS1, although his moves have faster start up, more priority, grab ranges extended, more mix up, can easily do 3-5k combos ANYWHERE on the screen, 3C counter hit meterless = 5k combo, 3C CH with 50 heat = 8k combo…yeah
Noel’s drives have faster animations, harder to punish some strings of her chain revolver, can cancel optic barrel from Chain revolver, more mix up on block strings, Haida is more or less easier/harder it’s really just different, but Auto dash allows her to do 22BBBBC and link it anywhere on the screen, wall bound 6C 2nd hit, and automatic 1k Fenrir for combo ender just make her a joke really off any hit, expect to be in a bad situation.
After that the rest of the tier list is just A B C I won’t bother going into them in detail but you can check on dustloop or look for Arcadia’s CS2 tier list, the S tiers are self explanitory and most of the A tiers are as well, everyone else B tier kinda falls into place as not amazing but not horrible and the C tiers aren’t horrible, just less options than everyone else for the most part.
Let’s go by parts
I never said that Litchi was a bad character, in fact just a few posts I said she was still a solid character. No doubt about it her hand-to-hand combat was much improved if compared to previous games/patches.
And that’s where my problem lies: I’m all for balancing changes but to force players to completely re-learn a character I think it’s too much. I always knew that Litchi needed to be nerfed, but not the way they did it. They could easily nerf her without chaging completely how we play with her.
I tried training mode and challenge mode. Challenge mode changed completely, even her BnB.Still got to adjust.
Also, I did a quick search of videos on youtube and didn’t found a good litchi in v1.03, but I probably missed something in here.
Everyone will have to adapt, including me. She’s still solid, but I’m not happy that my previous traning won’t do much nowadays.
Hell, I really do hope that you’re right. That they will get to a good balance sooner than later.
Somethings that were nerfed I agree but some chars got to strong. I just hope they won’t take too long to patch it.
Also, comparing SFII-SFIII-SFIV as far balancing goes isn’t that apropriate. Different games, different mechanics, different balancing issues.
I’m just glad that they got it mostly right with SSF IV and SF III TS.
Dustloop is offline at the moment =/
I just hope that the current tier list doesn’t have any cases of a character not having any fighting chance against another one.
One of my main complains of the first CS was that Noel was much underpowered if compared to CT, and to play against Litchi/Bang/Valk was almost impossible.
Now the tables have turned, literally >.>
Everyone in this version has a fighting chance, we all saw what happened to rachel it was an attempt to balance her in CS1, they made her far too weak, but sometimes you can’t find the right spot on the marker with such a unique character as herself, same with Tager he uses magnetisim to bring people to him with little need to go to them, he’s in his own league as a grappler alone what they’ve done to Tager I have little complaints about, he was never horrible, it’s just horrible people play him and complain. Hazama became amazing over night, he was good as he was, but now he’s too good, he’s like Arakune in CS1 when they forgot to proate the insects Since we are dealing with ArcSys I’m sure it won’t take 12 years for BB to become as balanced as GGXXAC, maybe in the 3rd or 4th itteration of BB we’ll see some good changes we’ll want. Most of the cast has been the same since the 1st game, some with slight improvements, but drops elsewhere, like Jin’s blizzard being unable to hit a crouching opponent on block, good change. And yeah I know bout the SF thing different systems, but it was mentioned before figured I’d bring it back up, this is SRK after all not Dustloop and most ppl here have played SF so you will need something they can relate to if they are unfirmilar with another game. Also with the Litchi overpowered thing, I still stomp on people with her now, since most everyone quit her, thankfully damn tier whores, that and people who sucked with her after the changes that quit too. Only complaint I have with Litchi is we only have one 4D cancelable move, which sets the opponent up to either think high or low, I don’t like having just one 50/50 setup off of one move, if we had at least 2 or 3 I’d be satisfied, who knows might get some more later when she gets reviewed.
Uhhh lol do you know your own character?
Litchi’s anti air? She has like 4 moves that settle that. Some characters don’t even have 1. Litchi 50/50 off one move isn’t enough? Some don’t have that 50/50 at all. Trouble with overheads? So many overheads are already bad (Obvious audio cues/20f+ startup) it really doesn’t matter. Or do you just want your easy mode groundbounce for landing an overhead?
You say your problem with the game is throws being too much priority? Why are you getting thrown? Giant tech window not enough for you? OS that shit 3ABC so you break even reject throws. Come on, chickening my friends chickening. It was in Tekken it’s in here too.
And as for Tager doing half as much work as gief I can only laugh.
Stay sad that nobody will enjoy CS2.
Heroic, right I don’t know my character, unhuh, have someone jump on your head trying to cross you up and tell me where that AA is staffless, throw that Tsubame and miss, now ur fucked good job Litchi, Tager has no need to approach after magnetising seeing as he can pull people to him, thats why I say his burden is less, he’s not Shermie from KOF2002 who can move as fast as anyone else and still grapple, my problem isn’t grabs having too much priority, its more range than they should have, I should not be grabbed by Hazama while doing Litchi’s jB of all things, thats too much range. 2A getting grabbed out of = untechable throw, not a situation I can help, I’d rather not argue bout it, but if your any good at CS2 i’d be surprised.
Litchi has some of the silliest normal anti airs. 2A is ridiculous, almost all jumping attacks will whiff on that, 5A is good. She is still very very good. Any one who still doubts this should watch Galileo’s Litchi on youtube.
Noel drives got easier to punish and less good.
Makoto got nerfed from CS1 to CS2.
Tager is a terrible character. Saying he brings you to him is lol. His drive moves that pull have like a gajillion startup frames. Hit him out of it and there you go, problem solved.
CS2 is the most balanced BB iteration to date. Stop complaining.
Still early to confirm if it’s the most balanced.
Noel drives can be punished easily ? Sure. But what good is that if those drives are only used mid-combo and her damage is high ?
Noel dealing 5k-6k damage with some of her combos is dangerous.
Looking dor Galileo’s Litchi on YT found one match with the new patch. The damage for combos is around 2k, with the biggest being near 3k.
No doubt about it, people are still adapting to this new Litchi. If the game is balanced, people will adapt, and Litchi will still have a fighting chance against everyone (she has the tools for that). But it not, it will be a new Ratchel (CT -> Overpowered, CS1 -> Underpowered).
I will search later for YT matches with Litchi against Noel, Makoto and Hazama (suposed top tiers now) to see how she fares against them.
I’m not particularly happy with some changes but still got to adapt.
I would say from my experience playing and watching games is all the characters have tools to win. Its just frustrating how much harder some characters have to work than others. All the top characters need is a reduction in damage to near the A tier characters and the game is mostly solid. I think thats my biggest issue with the game.
Pretty much Makoto v Litchi is, we get hit we get fucked so we’re playing mid screen cuz close range is suicide in that fight.
Hazama is a pain in the ass because it’s hard to pin him down, and also hard to punish some of his shit, just not a fight you’d enjoy.
Noel is a decent fight it’s not horrid we have range so drive spammers eat 6B if they’re too far when they start, but like Makoto once she’s inside just block or be ready to break grabs, and 3C is easily punishable so any Noel that does it, shame on them.