Hey guys and gals!
I’ve been lurking these forums for awhile but I finally decided to cave in and ask for some help! I know you guys have that monitor/display thread for the lowest amount of input lag, but I also remember reading a post about professional displays. I have been looking into a few, and I’ve found this: http://www.panasonic.com/business/plasma/TH-50PF50U.asp# but I have no idea if it’d be good for gaming.
I think I’m set on a plasma display, as I am a bit of a videophile, but I really want something that will not only look great but will also have low input lag and be useful as an all around display. I play games the most on my current TV, but I do enjoy watching movies and such as well. I also use it as my PC monitor. I have also heard the Viewsonic pro displays are pretty good as well. I am just a bit hesitant with buying consumer TVs because they all seem to introduce a decent amount of input lag and I despise all of the picture options like DNR and anything that just adds pointless processing to the image.
Thanks and I hope my first post wasn’t too boring!
If you are NOT viewing HD resolutions, a CRT screen is the way to go.
CRT screens have Zero lag, near perfect color reproduction.
The Challenge is to find a decent CRT screen with High end inputs such as Component (video split into 3 colored RCA plugs) some form of RGB (VGA or scart)
But I assume you want a Great all purpose HD Screen, and Plasma is much much better than LED backlit LCD screens.
I can recommend and Point out what ever screens I want all day but that will not help you.
Best way to make a purchase is being a informed consumer. And you already taken that HUGE first step.
You can try out sites like www.displaylag.com for more info.
With Consumer grade displays smaller screens lag less than bigger ones, cheaper displays with okay color reproduction does better than pricier displays with more accurate color reproduction
Basically the more post image processing you have the worst your image lag gets. Most Consumer HD TVs are design for movie watching not gaming.
Now for Professional displays, where timing would be critical to various industrial/technical fields alot of this fancy post processing is sidestepped and instead let the display do the bulk of making the image look pretty.
You still not rid off processes like Deintelacing or Scalling unless you do the following.
To avoid Deinterlacing, use a progressive scam image
To avoid scalling set your game systems to be at your display’s native resolution
Actually, the pro displays still have post processing. I am not certain how much lag is on those I have never tested one, but basically the tech in the current crop of Panny pro displays is already put into the consumer line, which is a generation ahead of the pro line. I’m going to guess that it will be 2 frames of lag, since the processing is bare minimum and the processing in the low end displays Panasonic makes is also bare minimum, yet they’re still 2 frames of lag.
Right now, the fastest consumer grade plasma display you can get is the Panasonic U54. It is 24 ms (2 frames of lag) but looks pretty bad. The next best will be a tie between the Panasonic S64 (34 to 36 ms, so the start of 3 frames of lag) which has great color reproduction and the Samsung F5500 (in PC mode, 34 ms, 3 frames of lag) which is also a nice display and has a few bells and whistles over the Panasonic.
Sadly, there isn’t a great display at the moment for critical gaming, although if you just want to play games and watch movies on one the two latter displays will be the best you can currently get for the money you will pay. You also won’t notice 2 completed frames of lag, so no big deal there. However, just because it’s touted as a pro display does not mean it will have low lag. It just means that the color reproduction will be great for people using it for TV broadcasting and stuff like that, where in most cases lag is not a consideration compared to color accuracy.
If you really want an excellent gaming TV and don’t mind a smaller size at 34 inches, and that it weighs 200 lbs, then the CRT Sony KV-34XBR960 is THE TV to get. You can usually find them super cheap on craigslist or possibly even given away for free. It does have 1 HDMI input, so you can still use modern consoles.
Hey guys,
Thanks for your answers. I’m not that much of a n00b when it comes to the TVs and stuff, I was just hoping someone else that did have a Pro display might chime in. I’m currently running a 50 inch Panasonic plasma and it’s great. It’s just three years old now and the black levels are not what they used to be. I think I still have a decent amount of time left with it, but I do want to know what I should be upgrading to.
Also, has anyone heard any reports about OLED TVs and gaming on those? I feel like 50 inches is the sweetspot for me. I don’t notice any lag and I get a lot of real estate. I am pretty sure it would get worse if you get to 55+, right?
Thanks again.
As any display, check out reviews from sites like displaylag.com
OLED or Organic Light Emitting Diode is a flat plastic like film that the whole thing lights up, making it a better means of back-lighting
As for gaming, I know the Vita uses a OLED screen and other mobile devices but I haven’t heard that much about larger format displays.
OLED does have a shorter lifespan than LCD screens.
OLED is practically the same as LCD, everything you hate about LCD quality is going to be a problem with OLED, with OLED being even worse for color accuracy because of the life of the RGB LED’s and why you see the current crop so blue in tone. You still get the motion smear of LCD on OLED so there is really no reason to consider one. You’ll also have the same digital processing so most likely you’ll still be in the 2 frame or so, possibly higher depending. Who knows. All TV’s these days suck ass. So much money wasted on Quad core processors to handle shit like apps when I’d rather the money go to hardware CMS to give amazing accuracy and low lag. Bah.
3 year old Panny, I’m guessing you’re on a S30, ST30 of some sort? Or a GT30? I believe those were 2 frames of lag, so if you’re happy with that you could settle for any of the displays in the 24 to 36 ms range and still be happy.
Yeah, I think I have a G series plasma. I’ll check that when I get home. It’s a great TV. I’ve never felt like my display was causing me to lose or put me at a disadvantage.
Do either of you guys have a TV you’d recommend? I definitely want very good/accurate colors and probably no more than 2 frames of lag, if that’s what I am already used to. And do either of you think it’s time for me to upgrade? Is three years too long? The TV has been used a decent amount and I’ve been using it as my PC monitor for the last year or so. Maybe less.
Well, the new plasma line Panny has out is a lot more color accurate with much better black levels than the 30 series from 3 years ago. If I were you, and you have a Costco or Sam’s club membership, I would look into the Panasonic S64. It has 2 frames of lag, 2 point gamma controls, RGB CMS options (but no CYM) and fairly decent contrast. The S64 model has an anti-glare filter that the S60 model (found in places like Best Buy or Sears) so that is the TV I would look for.
The only other choice this gen is the Samsung F5500. It’s a good TV, too. Has 2 frames of lag, has good black levels, decent color, has 3D so you can play 3D games, but doesn’t have the anti-glare filter the S64 has.
Both sets have pretty much the same lag.
If you don’t strictly need a plasma then there is a Sony LCD that has 1 of input lag, which is ridiculously good, but the picture quality isn’t all that great. It’s decent, but it’s LCD, and if you don’t like LCD, then it won’t matter what the lag is like if you don’t enjoy how it looks. No one is going to lose games over a frame of lag and no one will notice it at 2 or 1 frames of lag, so go with what is most important to you.
Other than that, currently there are no other TV’s worth recommending. You may also want to wait until January or February to buy a new TV. Reason is, everyone will be selling all the old models to make room for the new models. You could probably get a S60 (without the glare filter) for much cheaper if you shop around at Sears, they ALWAYS do sales on previous generation models when they get new stuff coming in.
Zapf
9
Since when is 24ms two frames of lag? a frame on a 60hz display is approximately 16.7ms long - using my awesome powers of multiplication would clearly put 2 frames of lag in the 33ms range, with 24ms being somewhere around 1.5.
0 to 16.7 ms is frame 1.
16.7 to 33.4 is frame 2.
33.4 to 50.1 is frame 3.
As you can see, anything that falls in between those time frames would mean the display is currently on frame 1 or currently on frame 2. There is a number of reasons it’s simply easier to count lag by frames rather than milliseconds because of how software updates inputs per frame, software fps, vsync, type of display, how humans see motion, certain color phosphors being faster than others, and so on. You won’t see half a frame ever, so in the case of 24 ms is essentially a frame at that point.
I guess in a way I kinda contradicted myself by saying the S60/S64 and F5500 are 2 frame displays, since they’re on the very start of the 3rd frame which technically puts them into the 3 frame range.
