Platform Fighters, Arena Fighters, Party Fighters... Let's pick a name and stick with it

[MARTIAN]

Does it really even matter?

And when has anyone ever even called AR a “Smash Clone”?

[p.m_novaroad_pilot]

Okay, so my problem with your post (besides the over use of the return key) is that because it is a game about combat and is played in tournaments, it’s a fighting game. In which case, I’m going to start a competitive Call of Duty league where the only weapon allowed is knives, and I’m going to call it a fighting game.

Here’s the deal basically, I don’t call Smash a party game, but just because it has players attacking each other doesn’t make it a fighting game. Another thing is that something doesn’t have to be called a fighting game to be competitive. There are tons of other genres that are competitive that aren’t called fighting games. Hell, Pokemon is incredibly competitive and everyone calls that a kid game too. I don’t see a problem with some people calling Smash a different genre but still acknowledging how competitive and tournament viable the game is. It’s got nothing to do with a negative connotation or shitting on the game, it’s just the simple fact of the matter that when you say fighting game, one doesn’t generally go to Smash first, and there’s a reason for that, because it’s so far different from the fighting game genre.

it doesnt have to be the first thing you go to
as long as its acknowledged

i call a spade a spade
i dont care if the picture on the back is of a gundam because it the exclusive gundam set or its got a power rangers pictures on the back because its a custom power rangers set of cards
the meaning and the content remain the same

its sad because you dont even realize you are disparaging the game by not calling it a fighter

if you made a call a duty game with only knives (which wouldnt be good and lame)
i would call it a fighter in that context

but at that point and using that analogy
you just being willfully ignorant

you are purposefully ignoring the techniques l cancelling, the nature and evolution of the meta game
the tier placements over the years
the scene itself
the objective to ko the opponent through damaging the vitality bar aka the percent bar

you lack alot of evidence to the contrary
the only thing you would have to rebuttal (which is a flawed argument in itself)
is that melee has items
the tournaments and community/players dont see it that way
they dont play it that way
they play it in the context of it being a fighter

so if it walks like a duck, it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck
then it isnt a fucking mongoose

melee is a fighter

[Mr.X]

“What you call a cat is different than what I call a cat”

[JohnGrimm]

you are purposefully ignoring the techniques l cancelling, the nature and evolution of the meta game
the tier placements over the years
the scene itself
the objective to ko the opponent through damaging the vitality bar aka the percent bar

I’m not ignoring anything. None of these matter in terms of what genre the game is in. All competitive games have advanced techniques, evolving meta, a scene, and if there’s more than one playable character/gun/loadout, there’s a tier list. These are not things that are exclusive to fighting games, they are inherent in all competitive games just by the nature of these concepts. What determines a genre is how the game is played, what the goal is, the mechanics, you know, the actual DESIGN choices of the game. I would say that Smash is more about platforming than it is fighting, because the goal of the game is to stay on the stage.

You mention the percent bar being a life bar. This isn’t true. The only thing the percent bar changes is how far you go flying when you get it, it will never be the reason you die. You die because you went too far off the stage, this can happen at 0% life just as much as it can happen at 300% life. You do not die when you reach 100% damage, you’re still fighting. In this, I would say that Smash is more about the platforming aspect than it is the fighting, because you can’t lose by taking damage, however you can lose by falling off the stage, so platforming from a game goal perspective is more important.

you lack alot of evidence to the contrary
the only thing you would have to rebuttal (which is a flawed argument in itself)
is that melee has items
the tournaments and community/players dont see it that way
they dont play it that way
they play it in the context of it being a fighter

Your evidence of Smash being a fighter has been nothing but “There’s people punching each other, it’s a fighting game,” which is a nonargument. Combat does not make something a fighter, it makes something have combat. On top of that, I never brought up items once, so now you’re providing a strawman argument and ignoring what I’m saying. I’m well aware tournament players turn items off, good for them, items don’t determine genre either and anyone who says otherwise is a troll no matter what side of the argument they’re on. I say Smash isn’t a fighting game because of how the game is designed. If you don’t agree with me that’s fine and dandy, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I would just hope that you are mature enough to actually reason what I’m saying and have an adult conversation with me instead of this ridiculous name calling and saying nothing other than “It’s a fighter because I say it is.”

[oldschool_BR]

How should we call a PvP platformer??? We wonder! Really! How should we ever call a PvP platform game? Dayummm… I’ve got no idea how to call a PvP platformer.

If you can’t do something well, don’t do it. Stick with “Smash clones” as long you don’t have the proper knowledge to accurately define genres – a task that no one on this site, and on the internet as a whole, is able to handle yet.

I’ve just did it. I’m the best!

[p.m_novaroad_pilot]

I’m not ignoring anything. None of these matter in terms of what genre the game is in. All competitive games have advanced techniques, evolving meta, a scene, and if there’s more than one playable character/gun/loadout, there’s a tier list. These are not things that are exclusive to fighting games, they are inherent in all competitive games just by the nature of these concepts. What determines a genre is how the game is played, what the goal is, the mechanics, you know, the actual DESIGN choices of the game. I would say that Smash is more about platforming than it is fighting, because the goal of the game is to stay on the stage.

You mention the percent bar being a life bar. This isn’t true. The only thing the percent bar changes is how far you go flying when you get it, it will never be the reason you die. You die because you went too far off the stage, this can happen at 0% life just as much as it can happen at 300% life. You do not die when you reach 100% damage, you’re still fighting. In this, I would say that Smash is more about the platforming aspect than it is the fighting, because you can’t lose by taking damage, however you can lose by falling off the stage, so platforming from a game goal perspective is more important.

Your evidence of Smash being a fighter has been nothing but “There’s people punching each other, it’s a fighting game,” which is a nonargument. Combat does not make something a fighter, it makes something have combat. On top of that, I never brought up items once, so now you’re providing a strawman argument and ignoring what I’m saying. I’m well aware tournament players turn items off, good for them, items don’t determine genre either and anyone who says otherwise is a troll no matter what side of the argument they’re on. I say Smash isn’t a fighting game because of how the game is designed. If you don’t agree with me that’s fine and dandy, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I would just hope that you are mature enough to actually reason what I’m saying and have an adult conversation with me instead of this ridiculous name calling and saying nothing other than “It’s a fighter because I say it is.”

1st of all
i didnt strawman you
i gave a format of what could be injected into the conversation with a popular argument
i never said directly that you gave that argument
although maybe i shouldve left it out since you didnt defend you position that good
or worded it differently to explain the design of the game
now that thats out the way

you do die when you reach a certain percent
there are guaranteed setups i.e from grabs where you die lol and this happens with the different weight classes and other specifics (which im not going into) so yes it is the reason you die
lets put it this way
you arent surviving against the top players at over 350%
there is frame data to defend and punish certain things

you dont die in tournament setting because of the platforming
you die because of your opponent
these all facts

you are ignoring the context that the community and its players project onto its ruleset when they play these tournaments/matches
and the games design has very little to do with that since the game was designed to be ***ambiguous ***

and for all your bloviating about what isnt a fighting game
you havent gave a good definition of what is a fighting game

now heres the impasse
i said in one of my earlier posts
that smash has 99% of fighting game elements

I have a feeling i know what your small difference in criteria is going to be
i wont strawman you
but if it is what i think it is
then…
lol

[Darklightjg1]

Versus Action

[p.m_novaroad_pilot]

I look at things in context
I’m sure when a nigga first did the shoulder lean or the stanky leg it was seen as some dumb retarded shit
But they meant for it to be a dance
It’s seen in the clubs ( not much anymore ) Played on the song

There fore its a dance

Letters are symbols they were first ambiguous but we categorized/compartementilized them to mean something
The design of smash is ambiguous but the community and it’s players molded and developed it to play a certain way and in that context
It’s a fighter

[SSJ_Sonikku]

I like Platform Fighter myself.  Games like Smash and whatnot have properties of Platformers, but are confined in the form of a fighting game.

[MKKhanzo]

OP add to that list TMNT: Smash Up<br><br>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf8BVFMpkY4<br>

[Doopliss]

I’ll start calling them platform fighters., more accurate than arena
fighters. Party fighters just has a negative tone to it which it doesn’t
deserve. <br><blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/50848/p.m%20novaroad%20pilot">p.m novaroad pilot</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>Why dont you just call it a fighter<br>
you act like the term is the crown key of olympia or some shit<br>
<br>
its people you punch you kick you use special moves you knock down their vitality and you ko them<br>
<br>
especially considering melee<br>
people have who have time to over consider the following sound like bigoted pompous idiots</div>
</blockquote>

Some people don’t want smash placed in the same group as SF, GG etc, and therefore they claim that they are not fghters at all. This ticks off the opposing side since they are clearly games where you fight other people, and therefore they are fighting games. Defining their own subgenre solves both of these issues, because they’ll still be a subgenre within the fighting genre, but clearly different from traditional fighters.<br>

[rogueyoshi]

the official name for the genre is already VS Action, but honestly i think the games deserve the title of fighting games more than most (controversial, i know)

[yoh001]

Naruto: Clash of Ninja (Series)<br><br>Rumble Fighter.<br><br><br>

[Iduno]

Ditch the fighter part and just call 'em platform games or party games.<br>