Phil Fish and Keiji Inafune call out modern Japanese games/devs

[ironboy89]

Call of Duty is the best game ever! I’m so happy they use the same gameplay mechanics ever year.

Final Fantasy sucks. Why do they keep using the same gameplay mechanics ever fucking year. God I hate that shit!!

That about sum my feeling in a nutshell. Western and Eastern need to step their shit up because they both need to grow out of some cliches. I don’t understand how people don’t realize that War FPS is basically JRPG of America. There are way too much generic shooters, there is not enough Alan Wake, Rayman:Origins, etc. Not to mention people focus way too much on graphical power over artistic style.

[Arachnofiend]

Crossposting from the other thread about this:

I think he just has nostalgia goggles on. He doesn’t remember all the shit that Japan churned out in the 90’s because he’d rather remember the good stuff.

As such it seems like there is significantly less good stuff coming out of Japan now than there was in the 90’s just because he’s got a faulty memory. It’s like the people who still maintain that the old Pokemon show is better than the current one (hint: they’re both terrible).

[Sephiroth73003]

What advice would you give to someone who thinks he could do the storyline writing/scenario crafting for such a project and may even be willing to, at first, do it for free?

Well most smaller devs don’t really have resources to dedicate to someone who is story only. Game story writing still isn’t a really defined thing from my understanding. Some people contract people out in big organizations, but normally it’s just someone having an idea and throwing it against his team (at the indie level).

So you’d kinda have to prove your ideas were good to start with. A bit difficult to do with no implementation of them. Not being a member of the team (providing assets or programming generally) would make it a bit hard to take someone seriously if they aren’t going to be in the trench with you. It’s hard to take direction from someone who doesn’t understand the difficulties of creating a “scenario”. Keep in mind story and “scenarios” are quite different. scenarios potential involve lots of work to create new systems so if their narrow in focus a lot of work doesn’t make a lot of game, if that makes sense. Like creating a system for just one scenario is very tedious in small development. Like Blitzball from FFX is a whole different system than the rest of FFX. Keep stuff like that in mind as if you start talking stuff like that to a small dev you’ll get blown off quick because your talking about adding a whole new game to his current game.

Easiest thing to do if you have any artistic ability or programming ability would be to try and have a small sample. Just try to find people that have either experience and aptitude towards creating a game and try to create something small at the indielevel by pitching the idea whenever you get the chance.

I’m no expert, or anything so take it with a grain of salt. Also if you don’t have any real experience I wouldn’t expect to get paid till you’ve proven you have some worth to bring.

[vansaykeo]

lol fish on twitter

http://i.imgur.com/AQJip.jpg

This guy seem like the professional type. I like how he boost about about winning an award then want a blowjob.

[Arachnofiend]

Of course he wants a blowjob!

Everyone loves blowjobs.

[Pertho]

Because of this thread, I will make it my mission to get a blowjob tomorrow morning!

If you want something that’s honestly dastardly is how much the American media portrays USA musicians as the best when half of those people couldn’t name you three languages. No, no, no, its a really hard stretch to say anybody from there is the best when you can’t name two genres that don’t have guitars in them.

Okami was pretty dope; so is SCV, Fat Princess, Scott Pilgrim vs The World, Dante’s Inferno was pretty but kinda meh overall, so is apparently Asura’s Wrath, the U.S. is pushing really hard with them shitty FPS but Japan is keeping up with the lackluster amount of FGs it is throwing out there…Seems about even really.

[Arachnofiend]

…Are there genres that don’t use guitar these days? Even the ones that don’t use it traditionally dabble in it because that’s how modern music works.

[jinsaotomex3]

Japanese games are shitty. Why? Because the ones I want to play are never released here in English, or at least with English subtitles.
Cunts.

[Arachnofiend]

Call me when America makes a decent fighter worth a shit.

[odin]

Then I jump in to the conversation and post some awesome 16-bit game video.

[media=youtube]X43Lr2CYup4[/media]

[specs]

Well most smaller devs don’t really have resources to dedicate to someone who is story only. Game story writing still isn’t a really defined thing from my understanding. Some people contract people out in big organizations, but normally it’s just someone having an idea and throwing it against his team (at the indie level).

So you’d kinda have to prove your ideas were good to start with. A bit difficult to do with no implementation of them. Not being a member of the team (providing assets or programming generally) would make it a bit hard to take someone seriously if they aren’t going to be in the trench with you. It’s hard to take direction from someone who doesn’t understand the difficulties of creating a “scenario”. Keep in mind story and “scenarios” are quite different. scenarios potential involve lots of work to create new systems so if their narrow in focus a lot of work doesn’t make a lot of game, if that makes sense. Like creating a system for just one scenario is very tedious in small development. Like Blitzball from FFX is a whole different system than the rest of FFX. Keep stuff like that in mind as if you start talking stuff like that to a small dev you’ll get blown off quick because your talking about adding a whole new game to his current game.

Easiest thing to do if you have any artistic ability or programming ability would be to try and have a small sample. Just try to find people that have either experience and aptitude towards creating a game and try to create something small at the indielevel by pitching the idea whenever you get the chance.

I’m no expert, or anything so take it with a grain of salt. Also if you don’t have any real experience I wouldn’t expect to get paid till you’ve proven you have some worth to bring.

Thank you good sir.

[PozerWolf]

Then I jump in to the conversation and post some awesome 16-bit game video.

video

I love you.

[King9999]

What advice would you give to someone who thinks he could do the storyline writing/scenario crafting for such a project and may even be willing to, at first, do it for free?

Expose yourself to the scene. Get involved in game jams where teams are looking for writers. It’ll probably help if you have samples.

[orochizoolander]

If you have a billion jillion dollars just try really hard and be passionate about your games like Valve and Blizzard.

If you don’t, be creative and try hard like the people that make all the amazing PSN/XBox Arcade games.

That has probably be the highlight of this current gaming gen for me. Cheap really fun games made by unknown developers.

And everything hasn’t been done. Look at Heavy Rain, they took a thing that has been overdone in every game this gen, made a game that only USES that overused mechanic, and it was great because it was based around a creative idea and untaken with polish.

First you call Blizzard passionate, comparing them to Valve and then you spit truth…I’m confused like finding out my girlfriend is my 2nd cousin.

[Taito]

Incidentally, I watched Indie Game The Movie, and a read few other articles about Phil Fish… and I suddenly lost any fucks to give Fish and his opinions. Whether they’re accurate or not is most likely coincidental.

[Azure]

Then I jump in to the conversation and post some awesome 16-bit game video.

[media=youtube]X43Lr2CYup4[/media]

This was such a fun game.

Beating the naming censor was almost as much fun, though, and practically a mini-game.

My friend came up with “slitlick”, and it passed.

I ceded the mini-game to him.

Sent from my thumbs, using SRK technology.

[DavDz]

Was reading a somewhat old article that reminded me of this thread

Assassin’s Creed III creative director Alex Hutchinson has accused game journalists of “subtle racism” thanks to the way they treat Japanese games. Apparently, enjoying the narrative of Japanese games is condescending and racist, because Hutchinson thinks they’re crap.
“I think there’s a subtle racism in the business, especially on the journalists’ side, where Japanese developers are forgiven for doing what they do. I think it’s condescending to do this,” he told CVG. "Just think about how many Japanese games are released where their stories are literally gibberish. Literally gibberish. There’s no way you could write it with a straight face, and the journalists say ‘oh it is brilliant.’
“Then Gears of War comes out and apparently it’s the worst written narrative in a game ever. I’ll take Gears of War over Bayonetta any time. It’s patronising to say, ‘oh those Japanese stories, they don’t really mean what they’re doing.’”

Uh … wow.

First of all, I think Bayonetta’s plot was its most maligned feature, while Gears of War received criticism mostly because it plays to tried and tested Western tropes that many people have grown tired of. Not to mention it was a developer that attacked Gears! It’s natural that Western audiences will be more critical of Western writing, because it’s something we’re more familiar with – we recognize cliches more readily, we have greater ability to compare with other works, and we better understand where the writer is coming from. That’s not racism of any sort – familiarity breeds contempt, after all.

I don’t think it’s condescending to understand that Japanese storytelling comes from a totally different culture, and therefore is going to resonate in very different ways. What may be “gibberish” to Hutchinson makes perfect sense to Japanese gamers. Humor, in particular, is not always universal – what makes an audience laugh in one country may utterly confuse an audience in another. Meanwhile, those who know enough about both cultures may know why it’s funny, and won’t write it off as sub-standard nonsense.

If we’re going to toss around accusations of racism, I’d say Hutchinson’s statements are up for scrutiny. After all, he’s the one suggesting that the only way you could like some of these games is if you’re patronizing those wacky-talking Japanese studios. That sounds more condescending than anything else.

That said. there’s a lot about storytelling in Japanese games that could do with a shakeup. There are Eastern tropes I’m getting just as sick of as Western ones, and I think they deserve to be called out a lot more, because there are some folks who do believe JRPGs in particular can do no wrong. As far as the press goes, however, I still remember most of my peers calling Heavy Rain one of the greatest stories of all time … so I don’t think the love of gibberish begins and ends with Japan.
In any case, while Hutchinson may be right in suggesting that some Japanese storytelling could be given harsher criticism, he’s oversimplifying the issue. There’s plenty of Western narrative that gets a free pass just because it pretends to be “emotional” and there’s a lot more to praising Japanese narrative than condescending racism.
Still, at least this chap and Phil Fish would have plenty to talk about.

[Lord_Raptor]

Um what? For the past few years most Game publications have been hating the fuck out of Japanese games and narratives.