While I was a quite tired and salty when I said that I still think it’s true. Though I don’t really want to argue it since the game is still new and I may be proven wrong. I do think you’re mistaken in thinking that Arc cares about how “silly” Aigis’ 2b would be without roll. Remember, this is the same dev that created V-13.
Edit: On topic the console version of GG has been confirmed to be +R
This game’s mechanics isn’t built against zoners, it’s built against lazy zoning, i.e. just standing there and chucking stuff. You have to be as active while zoning as you do if you were rushing down, and I appreciate that.
As someone who prefers rushdown, I don’t understand the appeal of lazy zoning, but I can certainly respect a smart keep-away game. I have a gaming buddy who is one of the smartest zoning style players I’ve ever played. Dude is always one or two steps ahead and constantly forces me to be on point. It is always fun to pit my skills against good keep away and this game is no exception.
It’s also really satisfying to finally work your way in and do damage–especially as an Akihiko player, lol.
P.S. Fuck Kanji
boy, you need to put more attention if you belive that zoning is weak on this game, or in any arcsys game btw
like po pimpus and mightfo said, their games reward smart and intelligent zoning, and are build in a way that allows a more over the top kind of zoning game, just see their different zoner characters on their games.
And more importantly, their zoners are build in a way where they are not helpless characters that are relegated to one one dimensional play style, the same with their rush down characters.
I never said that zoning was weak in other Arcsys games, that was the point of the V-13 reference =/ and there is a reason Yukiko and Elizabeth are bottom tier in this game right next to Kanji.
I agree completely. Just standing there and chucking shit is not only boring, but will get you blown up in seconds. I like moving around and throwing projectiles intelligently. Knowing the proper distance to throw a fan, and when to move back or move in is one of the things that drew me to Yukikos playstyle.
Though the fact that negative warning even exists in this game tells me it was built to punish zoners. I can tell you right now, that whatever the trigger for negative warning is, has nothing to do with whether or not you are hitting your opponent. I have triggered it so many times because my opponent is too dumb to move forward and block projectiles, they just keep getting hit in the face and up pops a negative warning for me… You know what’s awesome, getting a negative penalty for actively winning a match and then wiffing one fan and eating a 90% combo.
I would suggest that being they are horrendously dependent on their Personas, and if they run into a character with high reach normals that pokes said Personas…things go south fast.
So every character? Save maybe Akihiko.
Negative Penalty also exists on BB and GG and i dont see it affecting the zoning or the run away game, is only triggered if you don’t know how to zone or run away in a smart way.
And yeah, i know that you are not activating negative penalty that way, because the mechanic does not work that way. You can only activate it if you constantly back dashing or staying still in one point without throwing anything, if you were really moving and throwing fans, you would not be triggering the negative penalty at all, nice try.
You are also making it sound like they were running only on 7:3 matchups against them, when in reality they have descent matchups with maybe only 1 that is in the range of 7:3 while the others are around 5.5:4.5 to 6:4
edit
let me give you a little tip to allow improve your run away game
turning on the air and forward dashing away prevents the negative penalty
Only really Yu, Mitsuru, Labryses (and it’s god awful slow mostly), and like Teddie’s stupid baseball bat as far as plain normals. If they need to use a Persona it’s not such a big deal.
that doesnt explain shit since pressure and mixup in GG are thirty times harder to deal with than anything in persona, lol
i suppose this is yet another instance of someone being like “GOSH I WANT A NEW GUILTY GEAR” but not knowing shit about the subgenre
except roll is one of the only things that beats aigis 2b. that is quite a bit different than grossly messing up someone’s damage and string options; one is part of the fundamental design of how a move controls space versus how the space can be traversed, the other is a gross miscalculation in several ways
Don’t really know what to tell ya. I don’t just come on here and spout lies for fun. Though I do know negative penalty is more tied to the movement of the camera in this game than anything else, just because it was in GG and BB doesn’t mean it works the same way.
Oh and forward dashing away doesn’t do anything to prevent negative penalty, I just tested it for you, so I have to assume you have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about.
http://cdn1.hark.com/images/000/006/085/6085/original.0
Dipshit
Edit: more testing done for you Daidalus, man you really like making shit up. Negative penalty still kicks in even if you throw projectiles, though it is slower to activate.
Meh, Kanji, Yukiko and Elizabeth have pretty huge non persona normals as well. My point was more that almost every character has the ability to poke at personas in some way.
Aigis’s 2B is punishable with a free Fatal Counter combo if you are correctly spaced. I know that’s not 100% life from everyone like it is from Naoto, but it’s enough to encourage Aigis players to use other tools.
…two of those are the characters in question though. There’s a difference between being able to poke personas and being able to hit 5A at the range a keepout character needs to use a C or D to get space like Mitsuru.
Your negative penalty talk is just WTF.
Ok I can concede that point, but what about my negative penalty talk is wrong? Even James Xie said on UltraChen that it’s tied to camera movement. Go into training mode and test it. It’s just incredibly strange in this game. It’s easier if you have a partner to continuously move forward, since you need the camera to be moving to really get negative penalty to kick in. Just have them walk forward as you move back and hit them with projectiles. It seems like if you are the reason the camera moved, it kicks in faster regardless of what you’re doing.
I can’t wrap my head around how combos work in this game. I tried do some the Kenji stuff I seen on Dustloop and Japanese tutorial video and can’t do any of them unless I get a counterhit.
You sure they weren’t specifically counter hit combos? Dumb question I know… What exactly is giving you trouble?
The hitstun properties and chaining making me the most trouble. I know I can combo 5AA > 2B after a 236A but I can never connect with the 2B.
i’ve always felt negative penalty was an extremely heavy-handed solution to something that should be solved through character design. if you don’t want people running away endlessly, don’t design characters with the potential to do that and win. it’s not a big deal because it’s so easy to avoid having it happen, but i always felt it was one small blemish on gg’s otherwise extremely well thought out system and it kinda seems to have got a little worse (ie more likely to happen) since then, at least in bb.
Negative Penalty is hardly even a disadvantage in this game; if you keep playing runaway right and don’t get hit, it doesn’t affect you in the slightest. It’s nothing like GG’s negative penalty (which took away all your meter and kept you from building meter for a while) at all.
some stuff only works on crouching opponents 
BB/P4A negative penalty isn’t really a character thing beyond like…Nu not giving a fuck, it’s more of a way to balance out clock running so if you get caught you take huge damage. Defensive characters could always get away with way more before negative penalty in BB anyways.
I rarely see it in this game, and given the stage size and move ranges (and spacing rewards from landing anything) I can’t see why you would want to back up so hard with anyone.