I should rephrase that. Comebacks can be bad, depending on how they come about. Getting a 50% combo off a single guess, that you can make happen from almost any defensive situation, from just a single move by the opponent is kind of lame.
The risk for parry is fine, if it had a whiff animation it should be really short. The problem I have is with the reward…you get whatever you want. I think if you could only somehow get like 25%~30% off a parry it would be better.
parrying allowed the SF series, 3S in particular, to have a “mind game” aspect that it never truly has before. Also, the slower gameplay helped, but parrying leads to all sorts of mind games, in addition to the regular mind games that fighting games have.
just my two cents.
i’m not so sure that getting a 50% combo off a parry is the problem. the chance that a 50% combo is possible at all seems more lile the culprit here.
In what situations would a massive half-life draining combo be acceptable?
When you have to do all kinds of BS just to get it to work, not c.MK XX qcfx2+K.
You know, something like 720+P.:tup:
Man everytime I see you post it scares me cuz I think the thread is locked.
A parry in cvs2 last 4 frames if the direction is held. It will be extended to 8 on the ground, and 7 in the air, if the joystick hits neutral during the last 3 out of 4 frames.
This thread right here and the opinions expressed herein are the reason there never will be another well received 2D fighting game, much less SF4. What quantifies “skill” and “mind games” to the masses is seriously starting to make my head hurt.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
Third Strike is not as balanced as people think and parry really is fairly broken.
Apoc said it best, parry is a 50/50 guessing game, you guess right you win you guess wrong you lose. Thats basically summarizing what he told me when we talked about it acouple years ago.
Personally I like 3S but I can see why people would not like parry.
It’s a guessing game if you’re untrained at it.
Watch someone like KO, Mester, or Aruka, their parries are very much planned.
People say parrying has no consequences. How about getting nailed by a nasty combo if you miss?
Also, if parrying had a miss animation, you’d need a separate button for it, and that would:
A) Mess up the 6 button control scheme.
B) Make it very difficult to retaliate afterword, making it far less useful.
C) If you used something like LK+MP, it would just be too awkward to use in the heat of battle.
Besides, it’s not that killer in high level play. It helps, but it’s not like you need it to win. Getting parried once is not going to result in you losing the match (Unless you’re fighting Hugo or something). A lot of players just don’t want to adjust their alpha tactics.
If you’re getting parried a lot, it’s probably because you’re being very predictable. You can’t just keep doing jump ins and low pokes like in the Alpha/CVS series.
Basically what it’s done, is devalue the jump-in and continuos low poking.
Justin Wong for example, gets parried all the time because he’s constantly going for the SAII link.
People say it degrades into a giant turtle-fest, but watch the high level players go at it. I’d hardly call that turtling.
Parrying finally gives you a way to avoid chip damage, which I think is great. Up until now, you just had to sit there and die if you had a sliver of life left, and someone threw a hadouken at you on wake up.
It also gives you a way to save yourself when you’ve got nothing left and someone tries to cheese you to death with a super. Parrying any kind of non-projectile attack over 2 hits is not easy
I always thought it was odd that you’d be able to parry anything. If anything, maybe to satisfy some people and give Akuma a little edge is to make fireballs unparry-able. If fireballs really did exists, you couldn’t parry it, you’d get burned instead. This would make ground trap games a bit harder and would actually make Denjin a really powerful super since you couldn’t block it or parry it anymore. It gives the option of parrying, but also makes fireballs stronger again. Just Defense would make sense for fireballs though since you are actually trying to block the attack, not trying to swat at a ball of flaming energy. Just Defense instead of popping back could resemble pushblocking where you could jump cancel anytime after so you could retaliate more easily against a fireball.
Don’t know if that’d dumb down the tactics of the game really. Fireballs would be handled with JD xx jump attack, JD by itself, jump straight up, jump over forward and parry anti-air. JD seems to just screw up the power over the fireball again like Parry did, but having a pushblock effect means that if you’re getting hit by anything xx fireball, they won’t be in a position to punish, also does well with pushing people towards the corner.
Just my opinion really though. Having a complex, but intuitive list of options that are implemented and balanced well is the basics and I don’t think there is anything new to bring to the table other then new characters and how well you balance all the options you put into your game.
Well, fighting games in general have been trying to get away from projectile superiority since the alpha series and KOF 96, so doing that would seem like a step backwards to me.
I like that not having a fireball in this game doesn’t really matter.
Everytime I hear an anti-parrying argument, it’s mostly that they want offense/defense to be back to the way it was before. The same jump in combos, and fireball zoning, etc.
The sentiment here basically confirms it. Some folks are still attached to that Super Turbo/Alpha style. Others love the fact that parrying pretty much changes the atmosophere.
I’m not a pro at either game, and in fact, I’m actually worse at Alpha style. I’m absolutely wretched at it. While I’m certainly not even close to competitition worthy in 3rd Strike on even the smallest scale, I can say with confidence I’m much better than the average casual player. Parry, while I don’t do any of the advanced multi-hit parries, nor do I come back with vicious counters, are what make the game for me. It really jives with how I “think” while playing a fighting game. I hate getting into “patterns” (unless I’m the one doing the pattern myself, cuz I suck).
I love games where I don’t have only one or two standard options, where something absolutely wonky can occur during the game. I think parrying adds that element. This isn’t to say that alpha-style games don’t have this element as well, but I don’t think it’s as prominent.
The turtle-fest claim can’t be true. I haven’t seen a match, live or on video, that ever consisted of two players just parrying everything to death. Even with 3S leniency on the parry timing, if anyone is parrying a high frequency of techniques, they’re all mostly single hits, or slow double-hits against a predictable attack set. There’s still plenty of ways, when using the “higher tier” characters to either overwhelm parrying or mix-up enough that folks don’t catch up.
I have.
RX vs. KO in the random Ryu vs. Dudley tournament.
If there was no parrying then we wouldnt get anywhere near as much pleasure out of remembering Evo2k4.
Lol, I’ve seen that RX match, funny stuff.
Those kinds of matches are far and few between though.
I think I pretty much agree with the way Doctor Shaft put it.
I think parrying is one of those things that makes SFIII unique
if not, it’d just be another fighter with pretty graphics
the only reason I wouldn’t want it in SF4 is because I would want to see if Capcom could come up with something else to take it to the next level
These two statements just rule each other out. Justin Wong vs Daigo, evo 04? Imo Daigo needed to parry in order to win when JW cheesed him to death. He didn’t get parried once, but 15 times and it did result in him loosing the match.
I would keep parry in SF3 if I had a choice. It made SF3 a new and unique game but I don’t wanna see it in any other SF.
One thing I really liked about ST and I guess A3 was that characters had their own unique ways of dealing with the fireball trap. Balrog had the headbutt, Dhalsim had triangle jump, Zangief with his lariat and etc. Those unique traits the characters had to get out of that situation added depth to that character IMO but with parry, Capcom didn’t have to worry about it. Everybody just parries when the fireball comes, yay, now that that’s out of the way we can do footsies all day. Take ST and add 3s parry system. Why Shoryuken/Tatsumaki past that Sonic Boom when you could just tap forward? Parry makes projectiles unimportant and negates a number of ways to play. Balrog would be neutered.
Parry was an interesting solution to Akuma but I’d rather have airblock instead. If there was no parry in 3s then the tiers would probably be something like Akuma, Urien, Ken, Ryu, Remy.
I have the same opinion of roll to a lesser extent.
…and another example of a well known player coming in and shitting on everyone about their opinions, without clarifying what is a “correct” opinion.
Conversely there are times when you parry and still eat it. I.e., Hugo parrying agile characters jumping in from too far away. They land and have faster standing moves than him.
By that logic you can’t block fireballs either. Skin is still skin.
So…Daigo should be penalized for being skilled enough to parry all of that? They don’t rule each other out since people like Daigo are rare…aka exceptions.