Thats right, got the numbers twisted -11 on the block if you stop the combo, can always do c.lk and start a new chain. If done at a right distance event at -11 they wont be a able to retaliate. Except for character like Yama, Bison with quick specials.
Close s.mp leaves you at 0 on the block dont know where the +11 comes from?
***P-Groove Kyo*Newbie Thread :party:
The close s.MP is a meaty attack (ie. the opponent gets up into it). The frame data may say it’s zero on the hit or block, but timed meaty you can get up to +11 or whatever 12 active hitting frames will let you get.
Meaty close s.MP, d.MP will combo when timed properly so you can see for youself. Walking up and throwing after the meaty close s.MP gets good players all the time (since they’re smart to just block). Against mashers, counter hit d.MP will counter hit them all day.
qcf+HP has three active hitting frames, but the frames you’ll be wanting to use to counter a DP are the four autoguard frames. Again, those autoguard frames are totally vulnerable to low shorts though, and you get more damage potential off a meaty close s.MP/d.MP or a d.LK anyway.
That all sounds like a good random strategy. I just dont see it really practical, But to each one its own. 
Trust me, meaty s.mp is not a random strategey. Its probably one of the best meaties in the entire game. It gives Kyo amazing setups:
I find that Kyo should always go for the mixups after his bnb, granted however that he’s not pushed into the corner, unless you have some other 2p gimick that he’s got. All in all, Kyo’s meaty s.mp sets up all the other setups that he doesn’t get out of other mixups that he has.
Of all the good Kyo players I know including me. Is rare the ocassion they do s.mp on the wakeup on shotos or players with a wake up. Dont get me wrong i use it but only on players like bison,blanka, chunli etc. Those top tiers than dont have a wake up move, except for their level 3. s.mp on a shote is futile most of the time.
what the what?
This thread is complete utter bull #### but then I had to go into my fanboyism’s and start posting stuff…son of a bitch, SRK is only good for GD and nothing but.
Meaty attacks are overrated. I’m still not about to start using qcf+HP or f+HP as my new meaty attacks though. Where’s my reward when I’m successful?
qcf+HP gets you the fierce punch chain (which you can stop at hcb+P if you want). f+HP gets you a knockdown (and you can randomly cancel into qcb, hcf+P super if you want).
What if the opponent doesn’t wake up with a DP but with mash on wake-up throw instead? Don’t you want your maximum reward? Meaty close s.MP isn’t always the answer, but that’s what you also have meaty d.LK for. If you land a meaty close s.MP, which counters a wake-up throw clean, you can link into d.MP xx qcf+LP chain (which leaves you in better position than had you done the qcf+HP chain) or hit confirm a d.LK xx qcf+LK, juggle with super when you’re close to the corner. A meaty d.LK lets you hit confirm, link combo also into the qcf+LP chain. When you have super ready to go, low shorts chained into the launching kicks is one of the most useful combos Kyo has.
The overall best option to attacking the other guy as he gets up (whether he has a DP or not, and especially when you haven’t gotten a good read on the player yet also) is to still stand right over his body, block low or input a low parry, then kick throw or counter hit low short. It’s not perfect, but it’s that option select that counters the most possible options the opponent is most likely to wake up with.
I’m looking at that, “doing a meaty close s.MP on a shoto is a bad idea” post and I still can’t get it off my chest how much I disagree with that statement. But yeah, to each his own though and I’ve presented my side of the argument if you ever consider changing your mind.
Blanka, Bison, and Chun all have wake-up Super/CC and RC elec/ball, RC crusher/RC devil’s reverse/teleport, and RC legs (linkable into a super) respectively.
I admit that wake-up RC’s aren’t as easy to do as a wake-up DP. You only have a one frame window to get your roll out as opposed to the two frame window you get for a reversal special. People I’ve played with practice those reversal RC’s hardcore though. I don’t know if they just like taking the easy way out, or their brains are just stuck and convinced that “RC everything” makes them a good player, but just because a character doesn’t have a naturally invincible reversal, I don’t ever assume it’s totally safe to attack them as they get up even when they don’t have meter.
edit: Boooo to all the Ken players that wake up with Level 3 Shinryuken. 
Sorry, I forgot how many times I’ve died to that stupid thing whenever I do try to meaty attack people with meter as they get up (which is a horribly, horribly unnecessary risk I have a bad habit of taking).
I’ve also played a bunch of dense players that always want to wake up with a shoto DP no matter what as well. Even if I’ve punished them hard with a far s.MP combo after blocking the wake up DP, I don’t know if it’s out of stubbornness or what, but they keep doing wake up DPs anyway. I think it’s safe to meaty attack them the next time, but then boom shoryuken again.
Anyway, from the people you play with in your area, you’re probably right about your statement of meaty attacks being a bad idea then. Random > meaties any day of the week. The people I play with in my area are a little more controlled, so that’s why I’m not scared to use my meaty attacks on them.
There’s a vid of OTK almost losing to random C-Morrigan guy at Texas Showdown if anybody wants to see what I mean. The guy was free wins for everybody else, but OTK must of seriously been overestimating him and as a result, was getting destroyed by all sorts of stuff he would of never expected any other player to use.
oh yeah, What??
I just see the abuse of meatys like geese counters (randomness)
You dont know whether is gona work or not, you just do it hoping that your opponent messes up. Some people is predictable, but still you cant read people minds and know when they gonna wake up on dp or lv3.