"Our spirits are better now." General Cammy Discussion

Lollaff · 2011-09-23T02:11:29.000Z

I’m kinda left with the feeling that this “buff” or whatever you want to call it, is just something they came up with to avoid the whining about not getting any changes

Sp33dking89 · 2011-09-23T02:20:06.000Z

Lollaff:

I’m kinda left with the feeling that this “buff” or whatever you want to call it, is just something they came up with to avoid the whining about not getting any changes

It is. They know we want TKCS back but they think its “Overpowered” IIRC. So now there jsut giving us back 2 hit HKSA (Which should NOT of been removed) and this new Quick knuckle thing.

Orochi_Richie · 2011-09-23T07:05:32.000Z

Sp33dking89:

It is. They know we want TKCS back but they think its “Overpowered” IIRC. So now there jsut giving us back 2 hit HKSA (Which should NOT of been removed) and this new Quick knuckle thing.

This has to stop, man. We are not getting it back. Let’s move on and be constructive… -_-;

Westlo · 2011-09-23T10:02:32.000Z

To get back TKCS Capcom would have to remove all of Cammy’s normal buffs, which would be them saying “Yes we fucked up, we were wrong”. Capcom are not going to admit they were wrong to that degree… and no Cammy will not get TKCS with her current normals, would hands down be the #1 character in the game if that happened and much stronger than her Super incarnation.

MotM · 2011-09-24T10:29:29.000Z

I think Cammy is better in AE.

You have to actually work to win, but she is completely viable.

Her only REAL problem is that she sucks in AE on account of the fact that there are better rushdown characters, which is a problem with AE and Capcom’s obsession with team Hong Kong, not a problem with Cammy.

Every character has bad matchups. I’m trying to pick up Cody and jesus christ shoto spam is hard. The simple fact that some of Cammy’s problem matchups are getting nerfed should improve her in 2012.

Culex_O · 2011-09-26T13:08:23.000Z

agree, I think I’d much rather have her AE normals than getting TKCS back

Chocobuny · 2011-09-26T13:31:01.000Z

Why? The combos have all been scaled to do pretty much the same damage we got from super combos, I’m not really sure why everyone loves the AE normals. Like don’t get me wrong, they are good, but as a replacement for TKCS? No thanks. If i wanted to play footsies I’d pick a character that was actually designed around it.

SeikuRyu · 2011-09-26T13:45:58.000Z

The frame advantage off jab is great, the rest is a little overrated.

Close stand strong in super was a great frame trap tool. 4 frame startup, +6 on hit, +8 on counterhit. cr. mp or cr. mk -> spiral arrow if the move hit, leads to 2 hit drill.

The-Olympian · 2011-09-26T13:54:17.000Z

in super i used to use close mp to beat cr.hp+throw OS tech:

low mk strike, small pause, cl.s.mp (CH), cr.mp/mk, HK SA.

The-Olympian · 2011-09-26T14:01:36.000Z

my cammy is so rusty. i played a mirror against someone yesterday and was ashamed.

i feel so detached. oh i missed you guys. :sad:

Sp33dking89 · 2011-09-26T16:20:02.000Z

Did an unblockable last night. Never did it again

SeikuRyu · 2011-09-27T06:49:49.000Z

The-Olympian:

my cammy is so rusty. i played a mirror against someone yesterday and was ashamed.

i feel so detached. oh i missed you guys. :sad:

I’ve missed you too <3<3<3<3

Eileithyia · 2011-09-27T09:14:57.000Z

Chocobuny:

Why? The combos have all been scaled to do pretty much the same damage we got from super combos, I’m not really sure why everyone loves the AE normals. Like don’t get me wrong, they are good, but as a replacement for TKCS? No thanks. If i wanted to play footsies I’d pick a character that was actually designed around it.

well, people can like the AE cammy, it’s not necessary mean AE cammy is better than super cammy. There is no evidence that AE is any good either. The best evidence that people can find a some random tier list by other players. Also, people who don’t like tkcs because they are not go at using it.

Teyah · 2011-09-27T10:03:24.000Z

Chocobuny:

Why? The combos have all been scaled to do pretty much the same damage we got from super combos, I’m not really sure why everyone loves the AE normals. Like don’t get me wrong, they are good, but as a replacement for TKCS? No thanks. If i wanted to play footsies I’d pick a character that was actually designed around it.

SeikuRyu:

The frame advantage off jab is great, the rest is a little overrated.

Close stand strong in super was a great frame trap tool. 4 frame startup, +6 on hit, +9 on counterhit. cr. mp or cr. mk -> spiral arrow if the move hit, leads to 2 hit drill.

^ Exactly. Cammy isn’t a frame trap character, or rather shouldn’t be played as one, because these types of characters get nowhere in the SF4 game engine (look at Dudley or Gen for examples of this). Only when the threat of untechable grab or high damage, long range hitconfirmable combo is present, do these playstyles become semi-viable; Cammy has neither of these options. She’s an okizeme character through and through.

Receiving better jabs (that are bugged to not even link properly in combos, resulting in 1-hit hk arrow when you really should be getting 2 hits) in exchange for losing TKCS and losing close mp frame advantage is a really bad trade off. The jabs only help her get in; she could already combo from jabs into arrow in SSF4, who cares if now you get an extra 20 damage if you hit the 1 frame link. And even then your mixup afterwards isn’t as good with AE 2-hit hk arrow.

And then there’s the damage & stun reduction on a large chunk of her moves, which she didn’t get compensated for in any way. This makes it not worth poking with far hp, not worth using close hp as often, not worth going for max damage combos with MK arrow, etc.

No way is AE Cammy remotely as good as she was in SSF4. It’s not even close.

bunsomite · 2011-09-27T10:16:52.000Z

What was her damage/stun in super. Off a …

Lk lp lk hk or st mk cr mp hk arrow

Teyah · 2011-09-27T10:25:58.000Z

In AE:

First one is 42 less damage, 56 less stun. (1 hit arrow)

Second one isn’t a combo (lol), but since you meant st.mp it’s 48 less damage and 64 less stun. If HK arrow hits twice (very character specific) then it’s just16 less damage.

The-Olympian · 2011-09-27T10:41:37.000Z

Sycho:

^ Exactly. Cammy isn’t a frame trap character, or rather shouldn’t be played as one, because these types of characters get nowhere in the SF4 game engine (look at Dudley or Gen for examples of this). Only when the threat of untechable grab or high damage, long range hitconfirmable combo is present, do these playstyles become semi-viable; Cammy has neither of these options. She’s an okizeme character through and through.

Receiving better jabs (that are bugged to not even link properly in combos, resulting in 1-hit hk arrow when you really should be getting 2 hits) in exchange for losing TKCS and losing close mp frame advantage is a really bad trade off. The jabs only help her get in; she could already combo from jabs into arrow in SSF4, who cares if now you get an extra 20 damage if you hit the 1 frame link. And even then your mixup afterwards isn’t as good with AE 2-hit hk arrow.

And then there’s the damage & stun reduction on a large chunk of her moves, which she didn’t get compensated for in any way. This makes it not worth poking with far hp, not worth using close hp as often, not worth going for max damage combos with MK arrow, etc.

No way is AE Cammy remotely as good as she was in SSF4. It’s not even close.

its not that bad. im passed the point of Super Cammy Vs AE Cammy. i was so mad back then and wanted to drop the game.

i like AE Cammy. the character needs some minor adjustments to be even better then before. gaining back Super HK SA is a step in the right direction.

the way i see it now:

Zangeif U2 is 6-4.
Fei Long U2 is 6-4.
Dhalsim 5.5-4.5
Zangeif U1 is 5.5-4.5. or could be even (still evaluating the matchup)
Guile is 5-5.

Cammy > rest of the cast

fun part:

im rewiring my stick swapping back-button with 3-p (extra button). to plink jab with back.

i want to try that Ibuki loop on Sagat.

if this works it will help me with Cammys useless HK SA FADC st/cr.jab combos.

bunsomite · 2011-09-27T11:00:53.000Z

I meant st mp cr mp. And I meant in super cause those were bnb where as in ae it is or atleast should be replaced with lk lp mp arrow and st mp far hp

all this regard ae cammy dealing less damage

Teyah · 2011-09-27T22:25:22.000Z

bunsomite:

I meant st mp cr mp. And I meant in super cause those were bnb where as in ae it is or atleast should be replaced with lk lp mp arrow and st mp far hp

all this regard ae cammy dealing less damage

SSF4: :d::lk::d::lp::d::lk::qcf::hk: 163 damage, 266 stun, 2 frame link
AE: :d::lk::d::lp::d::mp::qcf::hk: 153 damage, 250 stun, 2 frame link

SSF4: :mp::d::mp::qcf::hk: 247 damage, 344 stun, 2 frame link
AE: :mp::hp::qcf::hk: 246 damage, 394 stun, 1 frame link, only works on 7 characters in all situations (standing/crouching, CH/non-CH), I wouldn’t recommend this combo
AE: :mp::d::mp::qcf::hk: 199 damage, 280 stun, 2 frame link, works on all characters. I recommend EX arrow ender here for 263 damage, 360 stun.

In general any combo ending in far hp xx hk arrow does less damage than any SSF4 combo ending in cr.mp / cr.mk xx hk arrow. In AE, far hp is +15 damage while hk arrow is -20 damage, so the math always works out in favour of SSF4.

DataIsKing · 2011-09-27T22:58:25.000Z

I want Fei Long’s damage output.