81

KoF 13, as great a game as it is, does nothing new either.
It mixes older KoF mechanics essentially and it’s polished.

And really, just let him do whatever he wants.
I doubt I will even like this kind of figher, but why not make it?
It’s not like only Ono makes fighters or that Capcom can only fill specific quotas.
If it doesn’t work out, that is it.

82

What new things did Kof 13 that hasn’t been done in previous Kof’s though?

From an outsider’s viewpoint it looks like Kof 2002 with revamped Max combos and a couple of different moves for some characters.

Snk is still catering pretty hard to their original fanbase, I don’t see how anyone who played the previous Kofs can’t just jump right in.

I don’t see other than inherent mechanics that make both games unique, what Kof 13 does that makes it so much more innovative than SF4, ultras and larger reversal windows aside.

I agree with you on Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 though, it’s more similar to Tatsunoku than a real Marvel vs Capcom game.

83

In comparison to Bao? FUCK NO.

84

Am I the only person that liked Bao?

It’s not like Athena’s voice was any less annoying.

85

I liked Bao alot also. That headbutt throw was hype.

86

first and foremost, NETCODE needs to be sooooooo good to the point where online tournaments can be ran for most of the world broken up into regions. Like for the USA, the netcode needs to be so good that we can have entire EC tournament online and have over 75% of the matches be great. This is one of the underlying factors that allow FPS\RTS games to succeed. They can have an enjoyable online experience from almost anywhere given a good online connection and that isn’t the case with sf4\umc3 in the slightest. Do you think CoD would be as big if it didn’t have online? Its the #1 way to increase sales figures but does Ono or anyone else @ capcom acknowledge that?

its 2012, not 1992. I don’t know why we can’t have dashing, running, and some type of other jumps as a fundamental core to fighting games. That shit needs to be in SF. The whole tempo of the game is so slow because of the lack of pieces that create a fast tempo

rolling left\right needs to be implemented after hard knockdowns
bring back parrying but create a wiff system on it to prevent the random guess parry from 3s
bring back air blocking but still allows the a2\a3 AA’s, height limit AA
get rid of ultras\comeback mechanics
keep the links, those are good
get rid of throw OS, even when ducking and you throw with lp+lk, it should force stand you and make you throw
bring stances to every character increasing the normal set from about 15 to 25-30. This will promote more footsies.
perhaps the down system from vampire savior which doesn’t allow a reset in screen positioning and keeps the momentum going.
bring more command overheads to the series, every character should have @ least 4-5 ground overheads and @ least 2 of them should allow combos to happen. This will prevent the never ending sit tactic so common in the SF series and actually force people to play TRUE defense.
decrease screen length to increase tempo and increase fighting scenarios. The screen length is too damn big in sf4 that it allows a slow tempo to be dominant most of the time.

those are just some things they can add to create a better game. I could go on about what to add though so I’ll stop there

87

Customization is cool as long as the parts aren’t hidden and you can make judgments based on knowing what the opponent’s customized stuff is.

Otherwise you end up with stale early games where you have to fish out information with little action happening, which makes the game more boring in a lot of ways. It can add another element (baiting opponent into revealing information), but that “phase” is generally the least interesting even if it’s fundamentally important (see the first few minutes of an RTS).

Like, Gems, fundamentally aren’t a BAD idea, they’re just implemented in the worst possible way I can honestly imagine. I would love to see stuff like a F2P fighter where you get skeletons that you can modify into your own unique character and then buy costume parts to make them look interesting. The difficult part is selling the information to the other player and not having “safety metagames” where you basically can’t afford to do cool things with your skeleton since you need to have as few whole weaknesses as possible to the largest amount of options (rather than what you think is cool or what’s interesting).

Also it still doesn’t beat the fact that hey, whole characters without changing parts is still a good aspect of game design. That’s never going to change ever.

88

He was pretty much if you fused Shingo, Chris, and Athena together aesthetically but removed all of the mainstream appeal of them combined.
I don’t even mind him that much, its just that when his entire character is literally “annoying runt”, he’s down there with glitched out Jhun in comparison.

89

Sirlin’s forums are generally filled with people who’ve never designed a game and digest knowledge and regurgitate it without giving it second thought. Unfortunately it’s one of the few forums where people try to legitimately discuss design sooooooooo…

90

I agree with most of what you said except for these two points.

More stances would just make the game too arbitrarily difficult for new players, VF open-closed stances was a pain to learn.

The down system from vampire savior would make certain fights extremely unfair, having a grappler kill a character in the corner and vice versa.

SF5 needs to have a more complex wakeup system than just invincible reversal, throw, and backdash.

91

Sirlin basically said "Let’s rip off Arcana Heart."
This is a good idea, but will anyone do it?

92

Commencing biggest eye roll in the world… Complete.

93

Most of the thinsg you said are just mechancis already existing, no real new direction. They may make for a good game eventually (though I am not sure if all these mix well, but this is just an idea of a game you want to see.

Does not really touch the issue of ‘something different’.

94

I think stances are one of the easiest ways to make a game deeper, its not arbitrary difficulty in the slightest. How else would you get more than 15 normals? make everything fwd+attack? then you risk the simple notions of walking, dashing, running forward with accidental buffers. If they were bck+atk, you couldn’t throw the pokes you wanted to throw properly and get the simultaneous block so it fucks up that part too. The stances don’t need to be something retarded hard, it can be 3p or 3k, 2p+1k or 2k+1p, very simple button comibinations could trigger it. It doesn’t need to be a hcf, hcb, plink lp>mp. It is stance after all, make it as easy as walking forward or jumping

for games with massive normal sets like tekken, there is very little need for stances other than to remain true to the style they’re imitating. They already have 50+ normals to choose from but for SF4, most characters have what, 15 ground based normals to choose from? its very small and only a few them get used regularly making it stagnant. You can increase the footsie mind game\positioning empo with stances and give every character in SF5 25-30 ground normals to choose from.

the down system doesn’t make victor, best grappler in vsav, broken. The natural wake up system of rolling left\right, neutral is faster get up, jumping up to prevent throw and reversals all can put a mind game on your wake up. Now if the grappler player reads it, yea he deserved it so you now you’re stuck but you had MUTLIPLE ways to escape. Its a very good system IMO. If you stick sf4 gief in vsav and he kills a character in the corner, its not over by any means. He just has a good opportunity to do damage IF he reacts.

cutting your dick off would be something different but it doesn’t sound very appeasing does it?

something different doesn’t mean something good. It just means its different.

Capcom keeps taking these massive leaps of game play and they can’t even get basic fundamental concepts right. Lets get some SIMPLE shit in sfv like uhhh dashing+attacking first before we talk about a new game breaking mode like pandora mode. People always want to talk about progression and new mechanics when the simplest shit like dashing or running can’t even be implemented into sf4 properly. You build up from the fundamentals and when you do it right, the BS modes like ultra\xf\pandora are completely arbitrary and serve no purpose other than to tilt the scale so scrubs can compete

95

Ono is Japanese for cancer
If I had a Death Note, his name would be the first I write down

96

I think I just misunderstood what you were talking about when mentioning stances, having different modes with different normals sounds like a good idea for Street Fighter.

97

I don’t know what to say. And this probably won’t make sense but…

Immortal Sad Face

98

My favorite part is all the bitching that comes from it you may continue.

99

SFxT needs to fail big time for Ono to lose this mentality towards what fighters should be.

100

Agreed.
Honestly, this is about the only wish I have and real true advancement that can be made in this stagnant FG genre.
The ability to play the game agaisnt people online the way its intended. Input lag is a huge turn off for me just knowing the fact that I’m not playing the ‘real’ game.

Game mechanics can come later. There’s never going to be a universally acclaimed by fans FG (especially by the FGD snobs that think their opinion = fact)