that’s normal, his ‘jawbreaker’ (b. MP) functions as an AA if timed right.
I guess that’s what was annoying since you can’t jump on him.
For Guile, one main thing to remember is that you can punish his cr.hk sweep with a focus attack or ultra if you block the first hit. Also you can match his sonic booms with fireballs from fullscreen, so prepare to be patient and mix it up a little to approach him by focus absorbing or whatever, just never jump in. Kara throw him when he’s just crouching there in front of you doing nothing and waiting, which is pretty often when you’re close to him. Try to cross him up on wake up and get creative (tick throw, combo w/e). You can also bait a flash kick when he’s knocked down by focusing from close by, just be sure to dash back in time to be safe and land a nice punish.
Okay, here it is. Ken was my main on SF IV, I am now switching to Ibuki. I feel a little bit frustrated that some timings changed, I’m feeling like a noob when I play with him while I was mastering every of his moves before. Like this combo: c.LK > LP > c.mK > Tatsu FADC to something useful, I still have trouble to get it, the timing is slower.
But my biggest question is that: I know that after a tatsu is always this little mind game cause we both restart at the same frame. My usual strategy on SF IV was to use a grab at the end, cause it was the most succesful. When I played against some Ken here, I tried the grab but they could send me a shoryu anyway, while in SFIV the grab had higher priority than the shoryu HP.
Did it really change, or am I missin’ something?
Id like to add to the previous question because the mind game after a landed tatsu is something I was wondering about as well. I used to use tatsu’s mostly to just travel around the screen when my apponent isn’t expecting it (hopefully) and be unpredictible. But lately I’ve descovered how much damage an ex tatsu can dish out at the end of a combo and i just can’t leave that out of Ken’s arsenal! But after it lands, its a guessing game. The way I see it, you could do one of three things. You could attempt a throw, which would catch them if they’re blocking of course, but if they are ready with a special move than you’ll get beat. The next thing you could try is a high priority move like an ex shoryuken, which would beat out any type of poke or most moves they might try, but if they block, you’ll get countered hard. Or the third option is to get back out of the line of fire, for example by jumping away immediately with an air tatsu and trying to avoid the whole mind game completely. But even then, it seems like certain characters could still connect a hit on him (Guy’s Jumping throw, Vega’s Bloody high claw, etc.) I know Ken’s a risk/reward type of character but I do like to have a certain amount of piece of mind when playing as him. I don’t really like to be in a certain situation (like after a tatsu) where it’s purely a coin toss as to who is going to take the next hit. So, my question is, what do expert Ken players tend to lean towards after a tatsu? What is safest. Because all three options seem like a roll of the dice to me.
Nothing changed. Shoryu would always beat throw in SF 4.
And they didn’t make the c.lp to mk link any harder, so I’m not sure how you’re having trouble with that.
Using random tatsus is risky since your opponent can probably react to it if its from full screen. Its easy for them to dp you or cr.fierce. If you choose to srk after tatsu, try to do it when you at least have half your super meter so you can cancel if its blocked. And most characters can safely land an anti-air if you try jumping away.
I usually finish all my links with a rh or ex tatsu. Afterwards I tend to crouch block and try to jab from that position in hopes of landing another combo. It’ll beat out throws but not most specials. You really have to be good at reading your opponent in this situation. Its almost a game of chance here really.
That still seems strage to me, Ken has been my main character for months and the only things which could beat my grab after a tatsu was either a special throw, or sagat’s Tiger Uppercut, I 've seriously never been hit by a Ryu or a Ken. I have to check
For this combo, I didn’t say it’s harder but the timing is slower. I feel like I’m playing a different character while I actually still have Ken :-/
Yeah, the random tatsus have cost me health plenty of times so i see your point. As to your strategy of crouching block with jabs, do you usually wait to see if your apponent is going to do an immediate special move and then block/counter, or do you immediately jab? Because i would think immediately jabbing would get you cought with a special move. And waiting might get you cought with a throw…so yeah, like you said its a guessing game.
I do it right away to beat out possible throws. When it works it gets pretty easy to stun him after and you basically guarantee a win. Of course, I’ve eaten plenty of DPs from that as well. Blocking/shoryu/throwing after tatsu either work or not depending on who you’re fighting. This is where reading your opponent comes in.
if you think post tatsu is a 50/50 then you need to look deeper into the situation.
for example, if youre fighting a grappler like zangief, abel, t.hawk, etc. then your best bet is to shoryuken>FADC cause most likely they are going to grab…BUT if they have ultra then i would be extremely safe and just jump backwards with a quick fp.
if youre fighting Balrog then your best bet post tatsu is cr.lk>cr.lp> shenanigans unless he has an EX Headbutt and an Ultra. the cr.lk will stuff his regular headbutt but not his EX.
ummm who else… if youre fighting ryu then you should almost always bait if he has two bars and U1. but if he doesnt then you have to determine if he is a masher/wakeup shoryuken type of guy then act accordingly.
what im trying to say is its all about knowing your opponents tendencies. it should NEVER be a 50/50 guessing game.
I’m not sure who you’re replying to, but that’s basically what I’m saying. Sometimes its easy to detect if your opponent will mash dp after getting tatsu’d (lots of xbl scrubs do), but other times you’ll have more conservative opponents, especially in tournies, and that’s where you really have to figure out their habits.
Well From my experience after the Tatsu, I usually Fierce DP. Fierce DP and Fadc it Kara throw or if it connects Another DP or U1. If you Cancel the 2nd hit of Fierce DP Hit or miss your still golden.
When you’re playing people you haven’t played before or played, but not often, then that’s exactly what it is, no sugar coating it. Even with people you played before, it’s still a guessing game, habits or not. There’s only so many things you can do after a tatsu. Reading an opponent means that you’re guessing… but with faith.
i strongly disagree. if it was a 50/50 then that would mean i lose half of my post tatsu shenanigans, which i dont, or any other good ken. not to mention ken has +1 frame advantage (EX tatsu). that fact alone proves its not a 50/50 scenario.
even if youve never played someone before, you can gather information depending on who they are using and how much meter/revenge you have compared to them.
for example if you ex tatsu a ryu player and if he has 2 bars and an ultra you can bet he will go for srk> fadc> ultra (not all the time, but most of the time). now lets say you have 3 bars, this is where you ex srk and FADC if needed. so in this scenario, ken wins because kens ex srk beats ryu’s fp.srk. of course the ryu player could beat you out with an ex srk of his own but most of the time he wont do that cause he wants to save 2 bars for FADC.
if you think its 50/50 then thats fine, but you should probably stay away from EX tatsu games then.
fei long
I’ve always felt i owed fei long untill i played a good one . man i am telling u ! i need help .
all i know is that good fei longs only poke with c.mp or the first hit of rekka.
when i cross them up after knock down they either escap from the corner with chickenlegs or if in the mid of the screen they use c.mk and my cross up whiffs , unless i use fj.short.
option select mp.srk for chickenwing and hp.srk for backdashers worked well.
they tend to punish ur strings followed by a fireball with rekkas , so i dont do that shit .
feilong’s flaming kick is god like so there is no such thing as safe jumping unless its a cross up and he can also punish me with that auto corrected flame kick. !!!
all i can do is bait a chicken leg with backward jump . neutral jumping is affective too at mid rang .
they also tend to rekka even after u hit them with a c.mk -> firball . so i srk that shit too.
I try to knock him down and keep him away … cos i really dont know how to handle him untill i knock them down either with a sweep or a k.throw. … what can i poke him with ? and what are my superior normals?
this guy is giving me a hardtime.
help !
i am getting owned by good fei longs and gens . what should i be doing in this match up ? how can i escape gens cross up jump pressure ? cos its realy hard to srk his retarded jump.
heeeeeeeeeeeeelp!
help !
i am getting owned by good fei longs and gens . what should i be doing in this match up ? how can i escape gens cross up jump pressure ? cos its realy hard to srk his retarded jump.
now i have seen ur ken and i am telling u ! hes god like ! … i respect ur game .
i have played lots of good hondas, what i can tell u is .
do not cross him up on wake up unless he does not have an ex bar . try to zone him with light FB it bothers him lots . step kick after u block his head butt.
and ones he starts a block string with his palm mash as soon as its finished jump backwards cos they usually fadc and command grab u , use there head stopm as a surprise , mash punches again or go for a head butt . now if u jump backwards u can avoid most of his options and keep him distante again. and when they head butt u can punish with the airborn hk/hp and then combos. use ultra one.
know his air attack as there range is quit annoying and know when u should throw a firball.
he can be safe jumped , thus os mp.dp beats all his options .
do not try to punush his neutral jumps cos his HP netrual jump has a really annoying hit box. keep him away cos his damage is rediculouse.
try to chip him alot and after a k.throw, do a F.srk or a short tatsu to mess up his charge. but remember that with feirce srk u will land on the same side. so its a mix up.
correct me if i am wrong.