Yeah, I’m with you. One of the things I hoped would be changed immediately about ST’s game engine is to make it impossible to take the opponent’s stun meter from 0 or even 1 to fully dizzy in one combo. Make it so that if your dizzy meter already has a couple counts in it and then you get hit with a big combo, fine, dizzy, or if you get hit with a big combo and then hit again, fine, dizzy. But it’s retarded that characters like DJ and Bison do combos that deal 40-50% damage and also dizzy, setting up for 80-100% damage.
And it’s not like DJ and Dic have to fully commit to their instant dizzy combos like Gief doing crossup fierce splash, crouching forward xx lariat, they can do crossup, one or two light attacks, and then if the combo is landing they can finish it, and if it’s not they can go into whatever else they want. I don’t know man, with both of those characters getting buffed, I really hope their tod combos get taken out somehow.
What if they added Stun Bar proration onto the Dizzy bar so that you can stillg et Dizzy’s off combos its just harder cause the meter progressively fills less the longer the combo gets or the more damage the combo deals out or something. Certain moves have a proration % or something.
I just thought of this off the cuff so sorry if its a stupid idea heh.
thats what i think as well. but i know many disagree. and that’s fine. I just hate it when people use the logic “well irl, you get hit a lot, you get dizzied.” well shit, IRL, you can get dizzied and knocked the fuck out in one hit, maybe sf should devolve into that? Comparing a game where beings stretch, and shoot fire from their hands, etc, to real life, is nothing but LOL to me. =)
Actually, after watching that video, I’m almost convinced that the throw whiff is going to turn out to be one of Hawk’s better upgrades. Being able to whiff the throw to build meter seems like it’s going to make him much more dangerous. Who cares if you’re not 100% guaranteed to loop the throw once you get in if you can just do the super instead?
As far as all these other upgrades go, it really does feel like many of the characters are becoming beastly. That’s cool in that it does push everyone up to be on equal footing with the top tiers. It’s also obvious from these vids and updates that the characters won’t just play like ST with better hit box here or there. The tweaks and upgrades being made really do seem like they’ll allow characters to play different and open up a new world of shenanigans and anti-shenanigans. And that all jives with the original intent of the project and is cool.
The one thing I do worry a little bit about though is if almost everyone becomes a complete beast. HF and ST were both considered fairly balanced games. But one thing I really liked about ST over HF was that it’s much more rare to land TOD combos or just plain brutalize people. People might whine about come-back supers, but I think the throw softening, slightly less damage, and it being harder to dizzy people really made up for that and more. And it’s always made me feel like ST matches were a little more drawn out and open to creativity than HF.
I guess what I’m getting at is that I think it’s cool that there’s added juggles. I think it’s cool that moves always connect now. And I think some of the new moves will be a lot of fun. But if, and I stress the if, all of this means that almost everyone has an easy TOD or can do enough damage to pull a win out of nowhere, then I hope damage and/or stun scaling will be implemented to counter those effects. Let everyone have all these cool options, just don’t let that have a side effect where people must play with zero error to avoid getting trounced.
BTW, if dizzies were to be made harder, I think the best approach would be to simply employ dizzy-scaling in combos. This way, normal single hit moves would do the same stun they always have, but each successive move in a combo would do less and less stun damage. For all I know, maybe ST already does this to some extent already?
I don’t think whiffing the 360 to gain super meter will be such a big deal. Gief already has that, and it’s not helpful for him because the only situation he can safely do that in is when he’s far away from his opponent, and deliberately placing yourself far away from the opponent is a bad idea as a grappler. Maybe it’ll be important considering that Hawk only needs a single jump to get from the far side of the screen to the opponent, but I don’t know, I still think it’s too big of an opportunity cost.
I’ve *never *really played Gief or Hawk seriously, so please take all this with a grain of salt…
I think one difference is that Gief feels a little more well-rounded to me. At mid-range, Gief has Lariat, he has a great cr.RH, he has decent non-knockdown pokes, he has his splash, his jumping knee, etc. Sure, Gief would like to knock you down, then get in and throw you. But it doesn’t feel like his whole game. Hawk, on the other hand, has always seemed like he relies much more on his throw. So, when he gets in, he needs to make it count.
Another issue is mobility. Gief is slow. He plods towards you and his best options usually slow him down even more. Hawk is a little more mobile though. Between his dive and his jump jab, it seems like he can move back and forth between far range and medium range with little effort.
Finally, as far as I understand, the super does NOT have a whiff anim. So, using the super instead of the regular throw seems preferable for more reasons than just big damage.
Don’t get me wrong. It’s not that I picture Hawk becoming 3S Chun or something. I don’t see him sitting on one side of the screen til he builds up meter and then trying to rush you down over and over. Instead, I think he can throw in a whiff here and there while the guy on the other side of the screen screws around and quickly get to a point where the super is charged. And I think being able to land the super instead of SPD more often will be a marked, albeit subtle, upgrade for him.
These changes still don’t make Dee Jay top tier, we will see tourni’ being won by Dee Jay players… I doubt it I can see Fei Long and THawk having better chances.
TOD rarely happens, how many times honestly has someone landed it on you…the MGU TOD is hard enough to pull off thats why I said I did NOT like the idea of making mashing easier otherwise everyone will be doing it. As for his cross up hook kick dizzy, cross ups arent exactly a hard tatic to deal with and there are plenty of other characters with insanely damaging crossups cough Fei Long, I’m going to push my biased opinion aside and agree with you on the hook kick cross up shouldn’t dizzy, unless he lands another hook kick on you :wgrin:
And yes I’m all for dizzies remaining in the game and every other SF game for that matter. One good reason that has already been pointed out it awards aggressive play and a penalty for poor defence. Alot of the time you may find yourself on the opposite side of the screen to the dizzied opponent so there isnt alot you can do to dish out more damage. And since mashing is easier, and from playing the beta it’s really easy to mash out of dizzies (feels almost like Akuma CPU recovery sometimes lol) I don’t think it will be as a big of an issue as it was originally.
You know for all the hateration remix has gotten the original goal of it has good intentions. Reason being that original ST is gross as hell. I love the game, but lots of nasty stuff can win that really should not. Top tier characters are buff as hell, Honda is disgusting beyond belief and some character specific match ups are equally gross. I just want a complete build so I can see how the changes affect the game overall. Hard to tell when we have only seen a handful of characters.
For me, a large part of SF is walking the tightrope between being dizzied and not. You know when you’re close to being dizzied and it forces you to make a choice on your strategy.
1)weather the storm and try to block and avoid throws until your stun meter is reduced.
2)surprise your opponent by mounting an unexpected offense.
It feels great to comeback from the brink of being dizzied after surprising your opponent with, for example, a psycic dp as they close in for the overhead. Its an important element to SF.
TOD combos are stupid though, similar to sabre’s idea, i think only the first hit of a combo should add to stun meter considering how easy it is to stun in this game.
So you are all for being rewarded even more after you just got rewarded for landing 50% or more damage? seriously think about that for a minute. You just capitalized off a players mistake by not blocking, therefore, you just got handsomely rewarded with a huge damage combo PLUS positional advantage. Explain why you should get rewarded a 2nd time with free damage?
And only sometimes is the opponent on the opposite side when the dizzy happens, and that usually happens when they get smacked with an individual hit(or thrown). Most of my dizzy combos tend to land me somewhat close to the opponent to get free damage.
as far as dizzies, it’s only easier to mash out in hd remix beta cuz there is a bug when playing online, where only angel dizzies occur, which are the easiest dizzies to escape. No stars, no Reapers, no nothing, just angels.
I’m not saying the damage should stay the same, ideally damage should reduce but it doesn’t, there wasn’t an issue before, Dee Jay isn’t soft banned because of his dizzy ability but alot of people seem to be up in arms about it now, doen’t make alot of sense to me.
As for SFHD I thought the angel dizzies bug only occured during online games.
The biggest reason for that is mobility. Zangief has a hard-ass time getting in. T hawk whiffs quickly and now has a reliable tool to get in your face at will.
