I see. I aleady have like 5 Bisons on my friends list but one more can’t hurt eh? lol, guess I won’t be hurting for matchup experience;.
Honda:
U2 is now useless. Return it to it’s Super form.
Graphf
July 31, 2011, 8:03am
103
Gojeran:
Then change the game! I think having meter transfer over from round to round makes some of the awesome balls to the walls plays of older sf games like ST impossible because its a better practice in its current form to run away and try to build meter rather than trying to win. This change in and of itself would make the game more offensive than any character specific fixes anybody is suggesting. If meter doesn’t carry over it forces you to try to win the match! and isn’t that the point?
Mix it up! Make super meter 3 bars and increase overall meter gain for all characters on block strings and decrease meter gain for wiffed specials. FADC would still cost 2 bars so there is less DP FADC get out of jail free cards. Also with only 3 bars and overall higher meter gain supers become more viable. I know its crazy talk but so what.
Think about it! Meter moving from one round to another makes the game more of a “slippery slope” which makes the hated “come back mechanics” more needed to make it fair. For example say an Akuma is fighting against Guile and in round 1 Akuma just takes it to Guile and doesn’t use much meter. Meanwhile, Guile is burning meter like crazy trying to stay alive. Guile loses the round anyways or runs away and tries to build meter giving up one the round and making for more downback fighter 4. Now round 2 begins and Akuma is sitting on 2.5-3 bars and Guile has next to none… NOT GOOD, Guile is more or less screwed! Akuma runs away with round 2 as expected. I***f meter did not carry over the situation would be reset and Guile would have a fighting chance in round 2 without needing to land some kind of ultra “come back mechanic” to stay in it.*** Just saying…
Oh and to stay on topic…
Ryu
Cammy- Remove or lower height restriction on cannon strike.
Yang and Fei also need some nerfs but nothing to major. Honestly I think Fei is better than Yang but I’m sure that is fighting words for a lot of you.
bold/italic/underline ---- THE TRUTH!!
Now there is someone who knows what I am talking about. Removing super each round resets the match centering the game more around player skill. which is a good thing.
Commander:
Some of these buffs to dictator are actually legit, especially psycho punisher being a qcfx2. Right now, it’s not even reliable to hit off of a jump mpx2 because of start up (22) + charge time. The point of the nerf was to give fireball characters a chance to throw fireballs if bison moves forward. There are other ways of doing this without taking away bison’s only viable ultra. I am not in favor of giving Dictator other buffs mentioned, like cross up devils reverse, faster pc, or decreased c.hp startup time. The first is OP, the second is a random buff, and the third is not needed; it would just make it easier to do for less skilled bisons. The game should be balanced. I hope people can stick to realistic nerfs and buffs.
Dictator needs to be able to compete with Guile and Honda. He’s free to both of them, still, especially** Dictator vs Guile, which is probably the worst match up in the game now that Seth vs Gief is better **(due to Seth losing j.hp). It requires nothing but solid play from Guile and no risks whatsoever; Dictator can’t get in. Easily a 7-3 in Guile’s favor, probably worse. I’m not in favor of nerfing characters besides the new ones(Yun), but instead in favor of buffing characters where they need it. That said, for the Guile match up, EX scissor kicks should have full fireball invincibility, and not just at the start. That way, only the Guile match up is affected. If other chars threw a fireball against Dictator and he had charge and meter, they would be hit as normal, because EX SK would do its job as normal. Guile could still throw booms outside of EX SK range, and thus still control space at range, and he could still chuck booms when Bison is forced to move forward.
No suggestions against Honda at this time, but the damage nerf helped a little. Neurosis, a japanese dictator and probably the best dictator it the world (highest arcade BP, at least), recently lost to Mike Ross at Evo in pools. I haven’t seen the match, but I am sure it would be informative as to what Bison needs here.
TL;DR:
Dictator/Bison:
I’d say Sim vs Yun is the worst match up currently. But thats my opinion.
Graphf:
bold/italic/underline ---- THE TRUTH!!
Now there is someone who knows what I am talking about. Removing super each round resets the match centering the game more around player skill. which is a good thing.
The thing is, there’s all but zero chance of this happening. So it just doesn’t seem worth debating. Capcom seems content with how meter management effects the meta-game in the SFIV series, and there’s no evidence to suggest they’d ever change that. All this update is going to address is specific character properties.
Xgrayninja:
The thing is, there’s all but zero chance of this happening. So it just doesn’t seem worth debating. Capcom seems content with how meter management effects the meta-game in the SFIV series, and there’s no evidence to suggest they’d ever change that. All this update is going to address is specific character properties.
I know it and I think Graphf does as well. Just something to think about and maybe Capcom will too, not for this game but maybe for a future title.
I don’t mind your opinion, so no worries, but Yun has to take some risks to get in on Sim (by navigating the field of limbs). Guile doesn’t have to take any risks to keep Dictator out.
Graphf
July 31, 2011, 8:14am
108
Commander:
Some of these buffs to dictator are actually legit, especially psycho punisher being a qcfx2. Right now, it’s not even reliable to hit off of a jump mpx2 because of start up (22) + charge time. The point of the nerf was to give fireball characters a chance to throw fireballs if bison moves forward. There are other ways of doing this without taking away bison’s only viable ultra. I am not in favor of giving Dictator other buffs mentioned, like cross up devils reverse, faster pc, or decreased c.hp startup time. The first is OP, the second is a random buff, and the third is not needed; it would just make it easier to do for less skilled bisons. The game should be balanced. I hope people can stick to realistic nerfs and buffs.
Dictator needs to be able to compete with Guile and Honda. He’s free to both of them, still, especially** Dictator vs Guile, which is probably the worst match up in the game now that Seth vs Gief is better **(due to Seth losing j.hp). It requires nothing but solid play from Guile and no risks whatsoever; Dictator can’t get in. Easily a 7-3 in Guile’s favor, probably worse. I’m not in favor of nerfing characters besides the new ones(Yun), but instead in favor of buffing characters where they need it. That said, for the Guile match up, EX scissor kicks should have full fireball invincibility, and not just at the start. That way, only the Guile match up is affected. If other chars threw a fireball against Dictator and he had charge and meter, they would be hit as normal, because EX SK would do its job as normal. Guile could still throw booms outside of EX SK range, and thus still control space at range, and he could still chuck booms when Bison is forced to move forward.
No suggestions against Honda at this time, but the damage nerf helped a little. Neurosis, a japanese dictator and probably the best dictator it the world (highest arcade BP, at least), recently lost to Mike Ross at Evo in pools. I haven’t seen the match, but I am sure it would be informative as to what Bison needs here.
Dictator/Bison:
Agree with all your points. great explanation!
I think he still needs a buff to cr.HP and st.HK needs to trade less.
Lost_Fragment:
Comparing karakusa to a move you have to charge for like 30 seconds? C’mon dude.
And I don’t know how you can say “I saw this and this at Evo/SBO quals” like it means much when there were barely any Makoto matches on stream.
True, there were only a total of I believe 6 at EVO and 3 at SBO(matches, not Makoto players.) She isn’t a terribly well represented character. Partly because many of her tools are performed better by other characters (most noticeably Yun with a slower moving but safer dash punch and a faster, longer range command throw, plus equal or greater mixups and better tools against zoners. Plus Genei Jin is more than often going to cause a greater damage boost than the 25% you get off of Makoto’s super.)
That’s understandable, and I can respect your opinion on the matter. Just saying, I hate when topics like these derail into discussions like “MAKE SFIV MOAR LIKE MY FAVORITE GAME”. At this point, I think everyone should just accept that SFIV is what it is, whether you like that or not.
Graphf
July 31, 2011, 8:17am
111
Exactly. getting new ideas out there, have people think about.
More important than an infinite that never happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v9weMs0v_Q
that shit should never happen.
Mr.X
July 31, 2011, 8:35am
113
Guile beats Bison (Dictator) in every SF. Guile’s design is a hard counter to Bison’s design.
Graphf
July 31, 2011, 8:42am
114
But that other guy (commander?) had at least a pretty good answer, FULL INVUL on EX scissors. It might not change the match entirely but it would certainly help.
full invulnerability on ex scissors? are you kidding me?
Joutai
July 31, 2011, 8:54am
116
HNIC_Mike:
ken and ryu are different characters with different meta games. you cant just say ryu should have whatever ken does. they use the tools differently
like ken usually isnt using his tatsu to get away from people. (he usually needs ex for that anyway)
ken also dosent have ryu’s fireball, so him having a better more active cr.mk isnt as big a deal without the rest of ryus footsie tools.
for instance, its much easier to show focus and get a crumple on ken if he pokes with cr.mkxxxfireball because first his fireball isnt coming out as fast, and second he dosent have ryus solar plexus to deter you from flashing focuses in the first place
If by more active cr.mk as in having more active frames than Ryus, you probably haven’t heard of Kens cr.mk getting nerfed to having 2 less active frames and 2 more recovery frames.
Graphf
July 31, 2011, 8:58am
117
Full projectile Invul on Scissors, his general invul would stay the same.
I think this could be really helpful in the Guile match.
This isn’t the first time Rose has fallen out of an Ultra…same thing happened with Sagat’s Ultra. Her hitbox is just weird, although I do agree that it should be patched. The logic of your opponent having massive frame advantage after you land the Ultra is really silly. I remember going against a Chun player in AE at CTF, and he tried to juggle EX Legs with U1 in the corner 3 times. I fell out all 3 times, and I just punished with U1. They did finally patch her hitbox bug against Blanka’s slide, and her own slide (in Rose mirrors, if you tried to slide while the other Rose walked forward, the slide would whiff). I think Capcom will certainly fix that in the rebalance update. I wouldn’t be surprised if the twins got nerfed to death. I think Capcom should take the approach of buffing the characters that got nerfed, while slightly nerfing the twins.
Fix the problems with Seth’s headstomps, make his U1 like it was in Vanilla. And what’s up with all the Ryu talk? The character isn’t even that bad, other characters need buffs.
Mr.X
July 31, 2011, 9:10am
120
Graphf:
Full projectile Invul on Scissors, his general invul would stay the same.
I think this could be really helpful in the Guile match.
How? EX Scissor is too slow to punish Boom on reaction, you’ll still be anticipating and it’d still be -100 on block.