3181

Wow that means Rose and yang should atleast have 200 for a bnb.

3182

Cool, now maybe you can propose something instead ?

  • his AAs are not good at all.
  • yes, because more options in footsies is always a bad idea
  • to make him…better ? Last time I checked, Abel wasn’t winning anything and you barely see him in tournaments.

Btw, Abel’s buffs are not these anymore. I changed some of them after talking in the abel forum.

Actually this is not true, the top from Super wasn’t significantly stronger - this is debatable at best.
First - who was top tier in Super is still controversial

  • Cammy wasn’t considered the best because she was underated, not because there were other characters better than her - same for Fei and Akuma.
  • Let’s take one by one:
    -Cammy - in super she had no tks restriction, But, she also received nice buffs in Ae and v.2012
  • Akuma: he only got some slight nerfs in ae and v.2012. Basically is the same
  • Seth - got both nerfs and buffs - very debatable which version was better
  • Viper - same, got both nerfs and buffs
  • Fei - he got significant buffs in AE, most of them remaining in v.2012 - he might be stronger now.
  • Rufus - some dmg nerfs but also nice buffs.
  • Adon: wake up changed, but got some buffs

Basically none of the curent top tiers can be said to be significantly worse than in Super.
The only ones that are much worse are Guile and Honda.
So no, bringing Guile back to his super status wouldn’t be broken. And since we dont’ buff him to super status, I think it’s ok.

So, 40 dmg for a char that doesn’t excel in this department, crossup combos that are a rare occurence, and a custom combo that works on 8 standing chars are crazy buffs.
Boy, I wonder what do you think of cody buffs.

3183

If Abel’s AA’s were good i would jump in on him when ever i felt like it lol

3184

I think we have different meanings what good AAs means.
When I think of good AAs I’m thinking of an invincible move/ 3f srk, etc. Abel is quite far from this. If he would have good AAs Rufus wouldn’t eat him alive.

3185

Good AAs are not JUST invincible moves / 3F srks. Otherwise Cody and Makoto would be terrible at anti airing by that definition.

Really one of the issues with the term AA is it’s too broad, because some moves are really good at anti airing specific situations (dive kicks, crossups, jump ins, characters trying to jump out of the corner.) but really not good at anti airing with situations. Deejay’s slide is a really good anti air for people trying to jump over his air slasher, but for trying to keep people from jumping out of the corner, or to stop a dive kick the move isn’t that great. Makoto’s c.MK is an AMAZING ant air move for certain situations, but not as good for others. Same with Cody’s b-MP far s.HP or any of Dhalsim’s limbs. They all are good but only in specific situations.

3186

Ok, you’re right, I made a generalization. Regardless, while Abel has solid antiairs, they are far from great. I see nothing wrong with buffing a move in order to do it’s intended job.

Alright, hakan, ibuki and juri proposed changes:

Hakan

  • EX dry Oil Rocket: - 1,20 range
  • Oil Rocket: reduce recovery with 3 frames (53)
  • f HK: +1 blockstun (-4)
  • dry EX slide+followup: goes a bit farther and faster
  • Oil Dive: reduce recovery with 3 frames (54)
  • Starting Oil: +1 more second (11)
  • Oil Shower: +1 more second (7-10-13-16)

Ibuki

  • Neck Breaker: + 10 dmg for normal versions (130-130-130)
  • Kunai: +10 dmg for each normal version (40-40-40)
  • trajectory is altered, traveling more horizontaly than vertically. It will be more difficult to mix up with it after a kd (and more risky), but kunai will become more usefull as a standard projectile.

Juri

  • s. LP: hits all crouching characters: Makes her bnb 2f rather than 1f.
  • s.far MP: special cancellable: Would give her BnB +10 damage and give her another useful normal (it’s such a waste that this fancy looking normal is so useless!)
  • neutral jump HP: hitbox improved: Gives her some more antiair tools to work with
  • Fuhajin: M: pushback increased: Now a better zoning tool (currently one p.much never uses this because it kicks away our best pokes and it can be ducked under as well as jumped over so it’s just worse than the l.version)
  • H: loses airborne frames: Makes [H.Fuha xx FADC > U2] much easier. Doesn’t fill any purpose other than to annoy people anyways.
  • H. Senpusha: gets additional frame advantage on hit: Makes [H.Wheel xx FADC > U2] work
  • Ultra 2: slightly lengthened hitbox and added vacuum properties after the first hit for the entire duration: Causes j.MP>U2 to always work, causes ExDive>U2 to always work (both miss by some pixels when done at max range); Keeps people from flicking off after one hit.

And if you guys are interested how the entire list looks right now - The Buff List:

Spoiler

Abel

  • Falling Sky: reduce the start up with 1 frame (4-5-8-5)
  • Super: give slightly more range
  • Tornado Throw: +10 damage for each version - 170-190-210-210
  • Ultra 2: reduce the start up with 1 frame
  • Wheel Kick: reduce the recovery with 2 frames (19-20-21-19)
  • far MK: - reduce the start up with 1 frame (7)
  • +1 active frame (4)
  • buff the hitbox for better AA

Adon

  • H. Jaguar Kick: +10 damage (140 - like in AE)
  • EX Rising Jaguar: +10 damage (170)
  • EX Jaguar Tooth: +10 damage (130)

Akuma

  • EX Tatsu: revert it back to Super except for dmg and stun(vacuum effect is bigger)

Balrog

  • Dash Swing blow (overhead): reduce the start up with 2 frames (20-21-21-21)
  • Dash Low: reduce the start up with 1 frame (12-13-13-13)
  • TAP: - reduce the start up with 5 frames (25)
  • level 2 gets +2 hitstun (+1); level 3 gets +4 hitstun (0)
  • LP Dash straight: +2 hitstun (0)
  • ju f HP: +10 dmg (100)
  • cr HP: +20 dmg (110)

Blanka

  • Ultra 2: kick - reduce the start up with 2 frames (10)
    punch -slight buff the hitbox for better AA
  • Blanka Ball: early hp ball frames lead to juggle state like ex does
  • cl. MK: airborne
  • cr. LK: 1 frame less recovery (6)
  • lev. 2 FA: +1 blockstun (-17)

Cammy

  • Nothing, she is really strong. No nerfs, though

Chun Li

  • Backflip LK: - reduce the start up with 1 frame (11)
  • slightly buff the hitbox
  • Kikoken: reduce the start up with 1 frame (13-11-9-9)
  • B+MK: reduce the start up with 3 frames (6)
  • Hazanshu: reduce the start up with 1 frame (22-24-25-25)
  • Ultra 2: +20 damage (350)
  • MP: +10 damage (70)
  • EX SBK: buff the hitbox for better AA

Cody

  • Crack Kick: becomes an airborne move
  • Fake Badstone: Earlier cancel on fake badstone. Reduce with 5 frames (26).
  • Backward Walk: speed increased to 0.029
  • EX Criminal Upper: +3 invincibility frames (7)
  • Knife: keep during tech throw
  • Zonk Knuckle: reduce the start up with 1 frame (15-16-17-15)
  • Bad Stone: reduce the start up with 2 frames for M (27) and with 4 frames for H (25)

C. Viper

  • Nothing, she is really strong. No nerfs, though

Dan

  • Ultra 2: +1 invincibility frame (9)
  • Significantly reduce blowback from Ultra.
  • Ultra 1: becomes armor breaker
  • H. Danku: +20 damage (150)
  • Air EX Danku: +50 stun (300)
  • EX Danku: more frame advantage on hit
  • Mk/Hk Danku: have hitbox that hits vertically down better so they don’t whiff on crouchers sometimes
  • Air L Danku: reduce the recovery with 1 frame (16)
  • Far LK: reduce the recovery with 1 frame (8)
  • nj. HP: Fix issue with attack whiffing after DP FADC midscreen.

Dee Jay

  • Ultra 1: reduce the start up with 2 frames (10)
  • LK Sobat: - airborne state
  • throw invincible
  • Air Slash: - reduce the start up with 1 frame (11-11-11-12)
  • +1 blockstun/hitstun for regular and ex (+1/+4; +2/+6)
  • cr. HK: - travel more
  • MGU: needs tweaking. It’s common for all the punches to hit except the last one.
  • Ex MGU: ex mgu needs less push back on hit because dash U2 (which is already difficult to land) sometimes whiff on characters like Adon.
  • Ultra 2: less recovery on hit.
  • far HP: +3 blockstun (-6), always launch on CH.
  • far HK: reduce start up with 3 frames (8)

Dhalsim

  • HP: +10 damage (85)
  • MK: +10 damage (70)
  • Ju. HP: +5 damage (85)
  • b. LK: +10 dmg (40)
  • b. MK: +5 dmg (70)
  • b. HK: +20 (110)
  • cr.b. HP: +5 dmg (90)
  • Ex Yoga Flame: +10 dmg (130)
  • b. MK: gets a 2 hit property. Only first hit is able to be cancelled.
  • Yoga Spear: reduce the start up with 1 frame (11)
  • faster speed
  • Yoga Blast: reduce the start up with 1 frame for L, 2 for M and 10 for H (10-13-20)
  • cr. LK, MK: +4 hitstun (-2/-1)

Dudley

  • F+ MK: buff the hitbox
  • HK: buff the hitbox
  • cr. LP: buff the hitbox
  • F+ HK: - fix the reel back bug
  • reduce the hurtbox
  • HP: buff the hitbox
  • cr. HK: - reduce the start up with 1 frame (13)
  • reduce the recovery with 1 frame (21)
  • MGB: + 1 hitstun for M, H (+2/+1)
  • 1 blockstun for all versions (-1/-3/-4/-7)
  • SSB: - buff the hitbox for the normal versions.
  • reduce recovery with 1 frame for normal versions (19-21-21)
  • L,M: +1 blockstun (-1/-3)

E. Honda

  • far HP: +20 dmg (100)
  • Oicho: +10 dmg for L,M,H (170-180-190)
  • L Headbutt: +10 dmg when AA (110)
  • H Hands: +14 dmg (119)
  • Ultra 2: start up becomes 1+0 like in Super (opponent cannot jump after screen freeze)
  • Shikofumi: reduce the start up with 7 frames (23)
  • EX Hands: - +21 dmg (161)
  • Hands: - M hands/ extended M hands: buff the hitbox for both for better connection; reduce the hitstun for M hands with 2 frames (+6) and with 1 frame for ext. M hands (+11)
  • H. Hands: +2 blockstun (+5)
  • Ex Hands: buff the hitbox (expanded for better connection)
  • Oicho: - for all versions, in the corner, on hit, throw animation doesn’t end with Honda having crossed over to the far side
  • Ex Oicho: +5 strike invincibility frames; reduce the range to 1.20 (from 1.52)

El Fuerte

  • Guacamole Leg Throw: Fix the trade (example: Ryu jHK’s El Fuerte Guacs. they both hit each other, Fuerte takes full damage from jHK and flies back like he should from getting hit in air. Ryu teleports to the ground hard knockdown, no damage.)
  • Habanero Back Dash: Fix the deadzone (there are times when you run back you can mash jab (sudden stop) and El Fuerte will not stop, instead hitting the wall and running forward, still not stopping.
  • Tostada Press: Fix the splash hit box, I can’t tell you how many times I splash, I see Fuerte touch them, nothing happens, then my ass is grizazz
  • cl HP: +50 stun (200). Run Stop Fierce is a rare occurrence in high level play. If you eat it and you play a low stun character like Viper, you deserve to get stunned. This is really Fuerte’s only damage. Any Fuerte that relies solely on his mixup is almost guaranteed to lose.
  • Propeller Tortilla: +18 dmg (150). The best thing this move had going for it was beating Ryu/Akuma DP free in Vanilla, changing their properties indirectly nerfed Fuerte. The damage nerf is unnecessary
  • Quesadilla Bomb: reduce the start up with 1 frame (16)

Evil Ryu

  • Teleport: needs some improvement. Either extend the invincibility a few more frames, shorten the recovery, or increase the distance traveled. As it is, it’s not much of an escape tool, which is to say that it’s not much of anything. It doesn’t need to be as good as Akuma’s, but using E.Ryu’s teleport successfully should not only happen because it’s so terrible that the opponent never expects E.Ryu to use it, so he can actually, very rarely, get away with it.
  • Red Fireball: reduce the recovery for L with 2 frames, for M with 3 frames, for H with 5, and for Ex with 2 (51-58-64-51)
  • Axe Kick: - H Axe Kick: hits overhead
  • L Axe Kick: + 2 block stun (-5)
  • Ex Axe Kick: gets some strike innvincibility frames
  • +10 dmg for each version of Axe kick: 110-90-140-170.
  • H axe kick: +50 stun (200)
  • EX. Shoryuken: +1 invincibility frame (9)

Fei Long

  • M Flame Kick: +10 dmg (130)
  • cr. MP: +10 dmg (65)
  • H Chicken Wing: +20 dmg (120) - it did 140 in AE
  • Chicken Wing: hit connect after a crossup
  • cl MP: C.W. canceled from MP connects with the opponent

Gen

  • Jyasen: - reduce charge time with 5 frames (55)
  • slightly faster
  • Crane Ultra 1: - reduce the start up with 1 frame (10)
  • on hit: +3 advantage
  • Hyakurenko: +10 dmg each version (90-135-135-173)
  • Ex Gekiro: +10 dmg (177)
  • Oga kick: +10 dmg each version (110-110-110-160)

Gouken

  • L Sengukoshoha: +10 dmg (100)
  • EX Sengukoshoha: Increase speed so that the hitconfirm st cl mp cr hp ex palm is not spacing dependent at as long as the st cl mp hits
  • Kongoshin (normal): +10 dmg (160)
  • Kongoshin: gouken kongo glitch removed, no more :b::f::b: as a shortcut please.
  • Tatsumaki: Make all versions of tatsu lock on effect on the first hit
  • cl MP: xtend hit box so that it doesn’t whiff on opponent hit reel animation during certain jump ins.
  • Air Tatsu:reduce the recovery with 6 frames for normal versions and with 8 for Ex (14-14-14-12)
  • Ultra 1: reduce the start up with 2 frames (9)
  • MK: reduce the start up with 1 frame (6)

Guile

  • L Flash Kick: +10 dmg (120)
  • Ultra 2: +50 dmg (350) - it did 420 in Super
  • Sonic Boom: normal versions gets +1 blockstun (+1/+3/+5)
  • Flash Kick: Fix his turn around glitch so his FK’s can autocorrect
  • Make all versions of flashkick cause the opponent to be knocked slightly further away in the air on hit.
  • Ex FK: +1 invincibility frame (6 in total)
  • f. Mk: hitbox extended just a little bit lower.
  • Reverse Spin Kick: +20 dmg (120)

Guy

  • Ninja Sickle: reduce the start up with 2 frames (9)
  • cl HK: Adjust the hitbox so it hits/can be blocked by all crouching characters
  • cl HP: Adjust the hitbox so that it hits/can be blocked by all crouching characters
  • nj HK: Adjust the juggle properties so that he can juggle a run-slide afterwards anywhere on screen, regardless if it hits twice or not.
  • reduce pushback to allow ex HOZ or even better HK tatsu midscreen
  • st far MP: +1 blockstun (-3)
  • Target Combo: Enlarge the hitbox on TC so it can hit all characters at a certain range when standing and crouching.
  • Bushin Chain: Remove Juggle count from his final fight chain (lp-mp-hp-hk) any new combos would be rendered useless outside of choice situations due to terrible scaling and would also depend very heavily on meter use. I honestly can’t see why it ads to the juggle count anyway

Hakan

  • EX dry Oil Rocket: - 1,20 range
  • Oil Rocket: reduce recovery with 3 frames (53)
  • f HK: +1 blockstun (-4)
  • dry EX slide+followup: goes a bit farther and faster
  • Oil Dive: reduce recovery with 3 frames (54)
  • Starting Oil: +1 more second (11)
  • Oil Shower: +1 more second (7-10-13-16)

Ibuki

  • Neck Breaker: + 10 dmg for normal versions (130-130-130)
  • Kunai: +10 dmg for each normal version (40-40-40)

Juri

  • s. LP: hits all crouching characters: Makes her bnb 2f rather than 1f.
  • s.far MP: special cancellable: Would give her BnB +10 damage and give her another useful normal (it’s such a waste that this fancy looking normal is so useless!)
  • neutral jump HP: hitbox improved: Gives her some more antiair tools to work with
  • Fuhajin: M: pushback increased: Now a better zoning tool (currently one p.much never uses this because it kicks away our best pokes and it can be ducked under as well as jumped over so it’s just worse than the l.version)
  • H. Senpusha: gets additional frame advantage on hit: Makes [H.Wheel xx FADC > U2] work
  • Ultra 2: slightly lengthened hitbox and added vacuum properties after the first hit for the entire duration: Causes j.MP>U2 to always work, causes ExDive>U2 to always work (both miss by some pixels when done at max range); Keeps people from flicking off after one hit.
  • EX Divekicks: make them executable in all 3 variants outside FSE

Ken

  • cr. HK: - reduce the start up with 1 frame (7)

Makoto

  • Ex Karakusa: buff to AE range
  • EX Fukiage: +10 dmg (130)
  • ju. MK: slight buff to the hitbox (for better connection)
  • Fukiage: reduce the start up with 1 frame (5-9-12-9)

M. Bison

  • Skull Diver: - becomes active untill landing, like in ST
  • better tracking abillity
  • Tech Throws: reduce the tech window on his throws from 8 frames down to the normal 7 that everyone else has
  • ju. MP: hitbox extended upwards so it had more priority on the way up
  • Ultra 2: reduce the start up with 5 frames (17)
  • cl Mk: - less pushback
  • +1 hitstun (+6)
  • Super: +10 dmg
  • Psycho Crusher: +10 dmg each (130-140-150-160)

Oni

  • Demon Slash: add +1 block stun for M (-3), +4 block stun for H (-4), and +5 blockstun for Ex (-5)
  • F+HP: decrease the hurtbox slightly
  • F+MK: reduce the start up with 2 frames (11)
  • B+MP: is able to combo after an FADC’d Shoryuken on hit
  • F+HK: is able to combo after an FADC’d Shoryuken on hit
  • Ultra 2: change the input into QCFx2 + KKK
  • Air Dash: reduce the landing recovery with 2 frames (9-9-14)
  • air Ultra 1: buff the hitbox
  • a larger cancel-window for Air Ultra 1 after Air Dashes
  • Fireball to be a little faster

Rose

  • Ultra 1: reduce the start up with 2 frames (10)
  • Soul Spark: - L: reduce recovery with 3 frames (49)
  • reduce start up with 3 frames for M (19), and 3 frames for H (26)
  • Soul Throw: Hurtbox around hand eliminated
  • Soul throw can no longer be canceled from any normal move.
  • EX Soul Spiral: add 3 more frames of invincibility (14)
  • cr. HK: reduce the start up with 1 frame (8)
  • cl.MK: Extended hitbox downward

Rufus

  • EX Messiah: +20 dmg (100)
  • reduce the cancel window for follow ups
  • doesn’t cross up anymore

Ryu

  • F+HP: reduce the start up with 1 frame (16)
  • Hadouken: reduce the start up with 1 frame (12-12-12-11)
  • EX Hadouken: +10 dmg (110)
  • cr LK: +1 blockstun (0)
  • Tatsumaki: +10 dmg each version (110-120-130-170)
  • F+HP: - +20 dmg (120)

Sagat

  • Tiger Knee: +3 blockstun for M and H and +2 for L(-8/-10/-15)
  • Ex: reduce the start up with 1 frame (6)
  • Low Tiger Shot: reduce the recovery with 1 frame (44)
  • Ultra 1: fix ultra glitch
  • LK: - reduce recovery with 2 frames (7)
  • change the dmg distribution form 20+30 to 10+40
  • F+LK: reduce the recovery with 1 frame (15)
  • cl HK: make cancellable hitbox bigger
  • H Tiger Uppercut AC: +10 dmg (190)

Sakura

  • Hadouken: reduce the start up with 1 frame.
  • Shouken: buff the hitbox for the last hit, because dropping combos due to no fault of your own feels really bad.
  • Ex Tatsu: buff the hitbox for the last hit, same as above.
  • Ex Otoshi: reduce the start up with 1 frame.

Seth

  • Nothing, he is really strong. No nerfs

T. Hawk

  • Condor Spire: - reduce the start up with 2 frames for regular (18) and 1 for Ex (14)
  • +1 hitstun (-4/-5/-7)
  • travel a little farther
  • Tomahawk B.: reduce the start up with 1 frame (4-5-7-4)
  • +10 dmg for each version (140-160-170-140)
  • Condor Dive: on kd lands closer to the opponent
  • Mexican T.: +10 dmg for L (160) and H (240) versions
  • cr. MK: +10 dmg (80)
  • Ultra 2: +20 dmg (470)

Vega

  • cr MP: +10 dmg (70)
  • FBA: faster speed.
  • cr. HP: Way better hitbox, to stop far/bad jump ins. (trades or gets straight out beaten now) C.hp is pretty much useless now, except for gief and hawk
  • PPP backflip: way faster
  • reduce the recovery with 10 frames (55) - make it like a one way akuma teleport basicly, could add a still risky but viable wake up or escape option for vega.
  • Sky High Claw: - Faster speed,
  • way improved hitbox
  • make a non EX version that can hit crouchers (like the diagonal super turbo one)
  • make it a lot safer on whiff.
  • remove the abilitty to activate SHC with negative edge
  • Cosmic Heel: Improve upward hitbox, making confirming ultras on REALLY dumb jumps possible and makes it better to catch jump outs.
  • EX FBA Izuna: +10 dmg (190)

Yang

  • cr Lk: +10 dmg (30)
  • st far and cl. Lk: reduce start up with 2 frames (3)
  • cr. LK: undone the hurtbox nerf from AE
  • Roll Kicks: - return the hitboxes to AE status
  • M, H Palm Strike: hitbox active period +3 frames (12)
  • far MP: return the hitbox to the AE status.

Yun

  • cr MP: +10 dmg (60)
  • Target C.4: +10 dmg (143)
  • Tetsuzanko: H +10 dmg (110), Ex +10 dmg (140)
  • Kobokushi: M +10 dmg (150), H +10 dmg (150)
  • M Nishokyaku: +10 dmg (120)
  • Target C. 4: reduce 2nd hit recovery by 1 frame (-5)
  • Target C. 3: +10 dmg (130)
  • Target C. 2: + 10 dmg (130)
  • Target C. 5: +10 dmg (82)

Zangief

  • EX Green Hand: kd on hit.
  • cr LP: +10 dmg (30)
3187

Why are you so angrily opposing the Ex Dive variants

Also you can remove that H.Fuha thing, it would probably look silly/glitchy because Juri is in the air during the animation (and Capcom won’t change the animation, that’s too much work)

If you add just one of the NJ normals, it’s not “some more” but “one more” :stuck_out_tongue:

I’d still like a way to punish stuff :frowning: But I don’t have an idea…

3188

I’m not opposing, I just didn’t really understand it :razzy:. Please post that change again, I will add it.
Ok, I’ll remove the Fuhajin H buff. I will check your list and pick another buff for Juri - or if you have something in mind…

Edit: man, I hate how this forum loads :annoy:

3189

i have a question. Can a juri player explain this to me? - H: loses airborne frames: Makes [H.Fuha xx FADC > U2] much easier. Doesn’t fill any purpose other than to annoy people anyways.

3190

I was thinking about his normal anti-airs. Falling sky should be made so it just doesn’t trade.

3191

It’s getting edited out anyways (so if you disagree, spare yourself the trouble. It will disappear from the list :stuck_out_tongue: ), but:

It refers to H.Fuhajin Release. Currently it has a few airborne frames on activation (not exactly sure where they are, at end of startup and up till the first few recovery frames). One can’t FADC airborne moves.
So instead one has to wait a few frames till she lands from her 5pixels high jump and FADC then if one wants to do [H.Fuha xx FADC > U2] (which theoretically is a neat AA tool). It’s really silly and pretty much only there to make FADCing the move annoying as fuck (or they just did it to make the release animation prettier and didn’t think about what it would lead to).

Normal Divekick has three different angles (L.: Steep, M.: Medium, H.: Gentle(? is that the right word)), reaching 3 different spots in front of Juri (Close/Midscreen/Fullscreen)
Ex Divekick has the same function by pressing two differing Kicks for the corresponding versions (L+M = Short, M+H = Medium, L+H = Long)

However, it only works that way while U1/FSE is activated. During normal gameplay, pressing any Kick-combination will always just do the Short ExDive.

This buff (“Make ExDive executable in all 3 variants outside FSE”) doesn’t really do anything as there’s no real reason to ever use this, but the random distinction of it not being possible outside FSE is just silly.

Uuuuh not really. The thing I’d like the most would be some punish option, but again I don’t think that’s something simple to be done.
Imo just leave it as-is. I think you underestimate the significance of the current changes :b The problem of lacking playtest options…
But I can write a bit on what this is gonna do later - even the “BnB to 2f” change is way bigger than it looks because it also makes jab a frametrap tool.

At this point it’s more like “I love if this forum loads at all”.

3192

I click SRK and wait for 5 seconds. If it doesn’t load then I close the tab, move onto something else and visit later :coffee:

Speaking of glitched Ultras, I don’t know if it qualifies as a glitch, but Seth’s U2 has strange juggle settings that result in it dropping before it finishes in a lot if situations. Doing much less damage and being punishable by just about everybody. It’s pretty rare for it to happen without someone trying random ass combos though…

Also Fei gets very high damage, why does he need damage buffs??? Gotta stop looking at things in terms of raw numbers. Okay, LP Rekka x3 doesn’t do 250 damage. It does start up fairly fast, go very far in that short time period, chips, is hit confirmable, usually safe, carries you like a motherfucker, and leads to a soft knockdown. Don’t forget the lol normals.

3193

I didn’t read the whole thread but why didn’t anyone consider giving juri more invincibility frames on her ex pinwheel ?
Her worst matchups are Seth, Sakura, Cody (only if he is close up though) Bison, Guile and honda (this 2 are unrelated to the ex wheel though) because once they’re in she don’t really has a way out anymore (Ex Counter isn’t that good since it’s going to change the direction if someone is going to do a crossup or fakecrossup which means she can land in the corner with a free punish and you can’t really control it)
I also don’t see how such a move would make her broken so why isn’t it on the list ? It is imo more important than any of the other buffs listed yet.

3194

I don’t see how getting a bit more invincibility would help. If they stick some grounded move out, they get hit already, but if they safe jump, they block.

3195

It wouldn’t really do much at all, since all the characters that can OS her EX Pinwheel could…still OS her EX Pinwheel.

It would basically encourage mashing EX Pinwheel in strings since that’s all it’d really be good for. Meaning it should happen ASAP?

3196

But isn’t mashing DP > fadc > followups the same thing a seth does during strings too ? A decent player would bait mashed out wheels as they would bait srk’s. Also Sakuras couldn’t do whatever they want anymore and it could also be a decent antiair against honda if it was invincible. Cody can jab her out of ex wheel so basically there is no escape once he gets in except EX counter which isn’t really that good. It should also move forward a bit like LK wheel to punish Headbutts/Blanka balls after a dashup.

For those who didn’t realise yet, it is not full invincible. Shes just invincible to low attacks and fireballs means she can get jabbed out of it.

Also why should she be one of a few characters without a invincible fadcable reversal.
It costs 3 meters so I don’t really think it’s unfair.

3197

That one frame makes a noticeable difference in the move’s priority. If Juri trades, she spends a bar to hit you for 30 damage and she eats whatever damage your OS does. It’s the difference between the perceived priority of shoto jab dp and their fierce dps, or Guile’s lk flash kick vs. his other versions.

That said, it seems really odd to say that Juri cannot get away from Guile and Honda. Neurosis considers Bison-Juri a bad matchup for Bison precisely because he has trouble getting in.

3198

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? It still wouldn’t do anything for Juri in the match ups you are giving.

Seth can just teleport behind Juri, EX DP, Super, EX Hyakurestukyaku, Ultra…
Sakura could still do what she wants because Juri can’t FADC it. At worst she burns a bar to OS her.
It would not be a decent AA against Honda in most situations still.
Cody could still stuff it.
Probably still wouldn’t punish Honda’s headbutts unless they’re bad headbutts. Same for Balls.

The main issue with adding 1f of invincibility is that it does not matter against these characters because they have options with more invincibility to begin with. This isn’t shoto 3-5f DP or Guile’s 4f flash kick. It’s 7f, can’t be cancelled, costs meter, and is pretty unsafe.

Essentially you want buffs to escape from bad situations. To help against characters with the best oki. I guess it sucks to be the guys who don’t have top tier pressure or qualify as Juri’s worst match ups (which these basically aren’t except Honda/Sakura but ok not here to debate that.)

also juri is hardly one of the “few” characters without an fadcable reversal

this is like complaining about how everyone doesn’t have the same move set

3199

I know exactly why Capcom didn’t give her a dp fadc. Because they gave her a 1 frame EX escape. Whether that’s enough is debatable I guess, but that’s definitely the rationale. Just look at Bison. Does he need a dp fadc to bolster his wakeup? Of course not.

3200

I think I used the wrong words. It would be decent if it was full invincible. Actually I am not sure against honda but the Ex wheel as it is right now trades, Sakura wouldn’t be able to do her tatsu blockstrings all day because juri can’t do anything against it except backdashes. Sakura is neutral on lk tatsu block so a 3 frame normal would beat her cr.hp which is one of her better frametraps after lk tatsu. Unfortunately juri doesn’t have such a move after a lk tatsu because she is out of range. I think it would be just fair if Juri could EX wheel > FADC during her pressure game and it wouldn’t get stuffed since it is full invincible. Same goes for Bison and neither I or the majority of Juri’s think that the matchup is in Juris favor but we might just play the matchup the wrong way aye ? Also yes she is hardly anyone of the characters without an fadcable reversal but as I said she is one of the few without an invincible fadcable reversal.
Also she can punish a blocked blanka ball with lk wheel (40 damage) while other characters have the chance to punish him properly. EX wheel doesn’t work because it won’t move her forward. So why is it unfair to buff the range ? Where is the problem with making it full invincible ?