Official SRK Ultra SF4 Rebalance Request Thread

Genistar · 2012-12-29T23:13:04.000Z

If guile got +1 blockstun on his sonic boom bison would almost never be able to attack without getting frame trapped.

I think Bison should get his u2 back with some nerfed to start up and distance.

If we were able to stream the changes and see how they’d work, this would probably go a lot faster.

Ruhit · 2012-12-29T23:26:04.000Z

That’s more of a problem with the game engine than the matchup.

I’m not exactly sure what you mean. Can you elaborate?

Emanuelb · 2012-12-30T00:05:07.000Z

I’m against the +1 blockstun on guile’s sonic boom. Not only he doesn’t need it but some characters might have a MORE harder time dealing with him.

I would let him have his 420 damage back from Super (but keep the chip damage as it is)

I don’t understand why you are so against Guile getting +1 blockstun on SB.
2 good Guile players think he needs this.
And about: "some characters might have a MORE harder time dealing with him."
Isn’t this true for everybody else ? I mean - if Gief gets his ex Gh kd back, wouldn’t this make things harder for many chars ? Same thing for Sagat, etc, etc.
Even Rose - I’m sure the characters that have a hard time against her will have it even harder with all of Rose’s buffs.
And considering that guile had even more blockstun in Super, I really don’t see why he shouldn’t get something good, too. I mean, I tried to give Guile dmg, but guile players prefer this.
I don’t play guile, and my character has a hard time against guile too, but as long as my char will get stronger, I don’t mind guile being strong too, either.
I’m not against removing this buff if you think it’s too much, but I want to be sure it’s not something like - “let my character gets good buffs, while others gets only crappy things”. He is still a mid tier char.
Bison was considered top tier in Super even if Guile was really good then.
And we are buffing Rufus wake up game, but for Guile is considered too much to have his FK autocorrect properly ?

cerberusfx · 2012-12-30T01:43:16.000Z

of course it wouldn’t really concern me since Rose doesn’t have to deal with the “blockstun” of sonic booms in general
I’m mostly concern about other characters like ShineBox said but I thought a bit about it…and it doesn’t matter tbh. I guess as long as 1 characters doesn’T have 4-5s 7-3/8-2/9-1 matchups it’s ok I guess.

Rose’s buff might make her stronger she still stay true to herself IMO. I don’T think the buffs that you agreed with are really going to make her matchups easier.

Her U2 is still better it most of her matches compare to her U1 even if we requested 2F less on the startup (and like I said before, most other anti-projectile Ultras are better either because their body move forward so they have less chance of making contact with the fireball while they are invincible or they have much more invincibility)
Soul Spark having 3F less recovery won’t make much of a difference
cl.MK hitbox buff isn’t something I would call a buff. More like a fix since the majority of the cast are hit (and you are suppose to be hit) by it except…4-5 characters? If those characters are suppose to have upper body strike invincibility or something when my cl.MK and their cr.lk comes out at the same time then I will consider cl.MK a buff

Her real buffs would be:

Soul Throw: Hurtbox on hand eliminated
Cr.HK: Startup at 8F
EX Soul Spiral having the 2 frames between invincibility and active frames eliminated

I won’t mention the Soul Throw not cancelled by crouching normals because
1- It’s something I don’t think she should have
2- She can have better than this
3- It would be the same thing as requesting U2 to be KKK instead of PPP

Julpero · 2012-12-30T03:21:17.000Z

I think it’s extremely silly for an Ult to connect one hit and then drop the opponent afterwards, whiffing the followup (and occasionally even going into the cinematic view… though that’s pretty because one can get a front view of a Lvl3 Focus, not something one sees too often!), but apparently I’m alone with that?

Well there’s lots of characters whose ultras whiff due to spacing. It’s perfectly reactable when you aren’t in range to do it so to me it was his mistake. Sure it looks maybe a bit odd but that’s mostly a psychological thing thanks to the fancy animations.

LoyalSol · 2012-12-30T03:43:13.000Z

There is absolutely no reason why Bison Guile should not be 9-1 or 8.5-1.5, I don’t know why people always make the cut-off at 7-3 and are scared to say the truth, it’s just not a 7-3 matchup. When you have guys like Happy Medicine getting shut down consistently by Guile, Neurosis losing to worse Guile players than him… The way I see it, a 7-3 matchup means if two high level players of similar skill play the match, the bison would win 3 out of 10 matches. Truth be told, I don’t see Dieminion losing even ONE match to any Bison player in the world.

I’ve seen that match up way too much and I say 7-3 is not the correct rating. It is easily one of the crappiest match ups in the game.

Genistar · 2012-12-30T05:42:04.000Z

I don’t understand why you are so against Guile getting +1 blockstun on SB.
2 good Guile players think he needs this.
And about: "some characters might have a MORE harder time dealing with him."
Isn’t this true for everybody else ? I mean - if Gief gets his ex Gh kd back, wouldn’t this make things harder for many chars ? Same thing for Sagat, etc, etc.
Even Rose - I’m sure the characters that have a hard time against her will have it even harder with all of Rose’s buffs.
And considering that guile had even more blockstun in Super, I really don’t see why he shouldn’t get something good, too. I mean, I tried to give Guile dmg, but guile players prefer this.
I don’t play guile, and my character has a hard time against guile too, but as long as my char will get stronger, I don’t mind guile being strong too, either.
I’m not against removing this buff if you think it’s too much, but I want to be sure it’s not something like - “let my character gets good buffs, while others gets only crappy things”. He is still a mid tier char.
Bison was considered top tier in Super even if Guile was really good then.
And we are buffing Rufus wake up game, but for Guile is considered too much to have his FK autocorrect properly ?

Remember guys we don’t need characters having 8-1.5/ or 9-1 match ups. Our goal is to eliminate that. Rose’s buffs will help her game but it won’t turn matches into her favor. All it will do is restore some of the footsie tools that were nerfed in super and throughout the revisions, Rose only got 1 buff because just about everything that was buffed capom nerfed her in another area.

Ultra 1: reduce the start up with 2 frames (10)
Soul Spark: - L: reduce recovery with 3 frames (49)
L: +3 block/hitstun (-9/-5)
reduce start up with
3 frames for M (19), and 3 frames for H (26)
EX Soul Spiral: reduce the start up with 2 frames (11)
Soul Throw: Hurtbox on hand eliminated
cr. LP: restore crouching lp damage back to 40 like vanilla. (Her bnb would do like 200-220 damage and she’d still have one of the lowest damage outputs.)
st.mk : move the hitbox downward so it can connect on all characters.
Cr.HK: Startup at 8F
EX Soul Spiral having the 2 frames between invincibility and active frames eliminated

(Part of its copied from the main change list thingy)

thebombdotcom · 2012-12-30T09:24:33.000Z

Make Sakura’s Cr.HP easier to special cancel on anti-air.

Also, Ultra One should be given more opportunities to combo (off EX hado in the corner, EX Shory corner, etc…)

chubbyfingerz · 2012-12-30T09:28:05.000Z

Light flash kick 130 damage?!!!

chubbyfingerz · 2012-12-30T09:31:37.000Z

You know what Dan could really use? Faster walkspeed. That would be excellent for him. Aside from all the aforementioned Dan stuff, a faster walkspeed would be phenomenal.

SpookyWombat · 2012-12-30T16:02:14.000Z

Abel:

Falling Sky: reduce the start up with 1 frame (4-5-8-5)

C.O.D.: reduce the start up with 1 frame (13-15-16-15)

Super: give slightly more range

Tornado Throw: +10 damage for each version - 170-190-210-210

Ultra 2: reduce the start up with 1 frame

Wheel Kick: reduce the start up with 1 frame (19-23-26-16)

Some explanations:

Abel:
while he is generally considered strong, his tournament performances are weak, so I gave him a couple of buffs, some taken form Abel’s forum, some my own ideas.
So:

falling sky: Abel’s AA game is not that strong, and some characters can easily dominate him (ie Rufus). FS as an AA is pretty terrible, I reduced the start up, trying to make it doing it’s intended job. I think this way it will be a little more usefull, while still far from great

Cod - a buff requested by abel players (incl 801).

Wheel kick - it’s a very slow move, so I reduced the start up, in order to be more usefull in footsies.

TT: some dmg I gave him. I tried to improve the cmd grab overall in the entire game (and slightly increase the dmg overall).

Super: 801 requested it. Abel’s super is pretty bad, and with meter being bery important for Abel, it’s seldom used.

U2: basically returned it to Super iteration (I tried to unerfed most of the pointless nerfs).

No
Abel’s AAs are good
What the heck does Abel get from a COD or axe kick with 1 or 2 fewer frames of start up?
footsies? why would abel use those in footsies… he’s got light kick and step kick

why would you buff his damage on command grabs
his BnBs do a ton and his mix ups are already overwhelming

There so much wrong with these suggestions that it makes my head hurt

Vulpes · 2012-12-30T16:07:56.000Z

Well there’s lots of characters whose ultras whiff due to spacing. It’s perfectly reactable when you aren’t in range to do it so to me it was his mistake. Sure it looks maybe a bit odd but that’s mostly a psychological thing thanks to the fancy animations.

If it just WHIFFS, that’s perfectly fine.
If it CONNECTS and then whiffs the hits after (Yay) it’s fucking retarded and should be fixed
It doesn’t just look odd - if the thing goes into the actual cinematic with camera movement it’s an obvious glitch

It doesn’t matter how many chars have this issue: It should be fixed for everybody

If you all think this would make the game totally broken beyond belief, for all I care reduce the hitbox of the first hit by some pixels rather than extending the hitbox of the 2nd
But the way it is it’s dumb

Eternal · 2012-12-30T17:18:03.000Z

If it just WHIFFS, that’s perfectly fine.
If it CONNECTS and then whiffs the hits after (Yay) it’s fucking retarded and should be fixed
It doesn’t just look odd - if the thing goes into the actual cinematic with camera movement it’s an obvious glitch

It doesn’t matter how many chars have this issue: It should be fixed for everybody

If you all think this would make the game totally broken beyond belief, for all I care reduce the hitbox of the first hit by some pixels rather than extending the hitbox of the 2nd
But the way it is it’s dumb

Agreed, characters falling out of a move due to issues with the physics engine is dumb. It’s one thing if it’s an intentional thing due to juggle system (like Cody’s ultra 2 on airborne characters) it’s another thing when it’s simply because the move is glitchy (Cody’s super / opponent recovering in time to block the wrench hits of Cody’s ultra 2 after getting hit by the dust part while standing)

If an ultra or super has the weakness of going through an entire alternate animation when whiffed (Viper’s U1, Cody’s U2, Juri’s U2, Ken’s U1, Sagat’s U1, Gouken’s U1, ect ect.) Then the move shouldn’t drop the opponent out of it early if they were hit at any time.

gilley · 2012-12-30T17:20:57.000Z

Anyone who thinks adding +1 to +2 blockstun BACK to Guile’s SB would make him too broken, needs to go back to SF4/SSF4 and play them. He wasn’t broken in those games where he had this extra blockstun. It’s hardly an “exceptionally crazy request”. And anyone who is trying to make balance requests based off of one bad matchup (guile vs. bison for example) should forget about making these requests. Capcom has said in the past, that they carefully take into account every matchup when making changes to a character. They don’t nerf characters based off their really good matchups. They look at the character as a whole.

Guile vs. Bison isn’t 9-1. It’s never been greater than a 7-3 matchup. Guile vs. patience is a 10-0 matchup though. If you have no patience, you will lose every time. I’ve seen both happy medicine and dieminion play that match, and it’s obvious to see that happy medicine doesn’t know the guile matchup as well as he should, and also has no patience in that fight. Dieminion on the other hand knows the matchup really well. So it makes the matchup look worse. You should ask Kim1234 what the guile/bison matchup is, he’s a better bison.

Vulpes · 2012-12-30T17:34:12.000Z

Anyone who thinks adding +1 to +2 blockstun BACK to Guile’s SB would make him too broken, needs to go back to SF4/SSF4 and play them. He wasn’t broken in those games where he had this extra blockstun.

You are aware that the top was significantly stronger in Super than it is right now, right?
There were people in Super who didn’t think Cammy with TK CS was on #1
Do you think you can give Cammy her meterless TK CS back now ‘because she wasn’t broken in Super with it’?

E: I’m not saying that he would be ‘broken’ with it. Quite frankly, I don’t know. But the reasoning for stating that he wouldn’t be is silly.

gilley · 2012-12-30T18:16:28.000Z

You are aware that the top was significantly stronger in Super than it is right now, right?
There were people in Super who didn’t think Cammy with TK CS was on #1
Do you think you can give Cammy her meterless TK CS back now ‘because she wasn’t broken in Super with it’?

E: I’m not saying that he would be ‘broken’ with it. Quite frankly, I don’t know. But the reasoning for stating that he wouldn’t be is silly.

We’ve seen in SF4/SSF4 that having 2 extra frames of blockstun on SB isn’t broken in the slightest. How is that reasoning silly?

The people who didn’t think cammy TK CS was really strong are idiots. There’s lots of stupid stuff that gets posted to the forums, anyone has a voice.

I just find it funny that with all the crazy stuff that’s in this game, people actually argue that adding something like 1 or 2 more blockstun frames on a projectile would be too good.

Infil · 2012-12-30T18:32:56.000Z

Those Fei suggestions on the previous page are out of this world crazy, IMO. Increased damage to flame kick and chicken wing, plus chicken wing can combo on crossup again, AND cl.MP combos into chicken wing on everyone? What did we do to deserve this again? lol

Da_Knut · 2012-12-30T19:18:44.000Z

Wow, are people really complaining about DJ changes? unthrowable lk sobat is a problem? was it a problem in super? I mean it get stuffed by meaties. His wake up is still ass.

cerberusfx · 2012-12-30T19:31:24.000Z

referring to what happened at EVO: I wouldn’t go as far as calling it a glitch. Hitboxes are placed in way so that the majority of the time it connects. A small easy adjustment would be either to move the hitboxes more forward or just make it wider. Now did Capcom intend to do this on purpose ? I don’t think so. I feel like they didn’t bother experiment all moves at precised distance, which is a bad thing.

The only ultras so far I would call a glitch are:
Rose dropping at of Sagat’s U1 in the corner (imo full hits should happen on everyone regardless of your position on the screen)
Rose trading her U1 when its suppose to connect (She takes damage, other character flies away and doesn’t take any damage since 1st doesn’t do actual damage)

Ultras like Viper / Balrog / Chun are the same thing as if Ryu was doing shoryu FADC early U1: it happens that the character only gets 1 hit because the Ryu player did it to early: hitbox placement. Of course making them bigger would be a plus for them (imo particularly Chun. Why does the timing have to be character specific ? Its stupid imo)

Capcom has said in the past, that they carefully take into account every matchup when making changes to a character. They don’t nerf characters based off their really good matchups. They look at the character as a whole.

Before changing anything, I think they should understand what’s going on in the game instead of looking at a character “as a whole” and decide what to nerf/buff. Bad way to change things IMO. You need tests and feedback. Based on the results you continue from there.

cerberusfx · 2012-12-30T19:53:22.000Z

cr. LP: restore crouching lp damage back to 40 like vanilla. (Her bnb would do like 200-220 damage and she’d still have one of the lowest damage outputs.)

hmmm for me 200-220 seems like the average damage for bnbs