Agreed, rather tired of the “Nerf everyone” sensibilities as the game slowly morphs into Super Generic Fighter IV: Bland Edition.
Please make Dan better.
Old Dankuu damages.
faster start up on normals.
better hit boxes on normals
farther gadou range/less end lag. Hp gadou should go full screen like chun fireball and have decent end lag lp gadou should go where hp gadou does now and have sonic boom recovery
take away huge end lag from air lk dankuu
taunts build meter and/or take away from opponent
koryu fadc nj hp work on all characters
longer range u1 with more invincibility
more invincibility on u2 and more damage
Make cl.mp -> knee a true blockstring.
Stun at 1000, HP 1100. Dans only thing is he is able to take a beating why does he have average health and low stun.
Super having vacuum effect like Rufus super, so we can do gadou xx super or koryu xx super without this stupid crap that happens now
knee juggle to ex koryu from anywhere on screen.
ex dankuu fireball invincible.
Make cl St Hp a command normal, F+HP. And make it an over head that is special cancellable.
etc…
Also for new moves give us Roll Taunt, The Auto Guard Punch where Dan breaks his hand and Saikyo Ryuu Bougyou- basically a pushblock.
Yea i aint gonna lie I want some changes but i feel after they make there decisions and finalize this patch. Some people will get sick of it.
Hopefully, as some said they do it RIGHT this time. ([SIZE=3]Which probably not gonna happen, all you need is a good group of people in the community to cry / complain, they"ll listen and announce another patch, and by then i personally wont give a shit.This aint my main game:rock:)[/SIZE]
FEI LONG
- EX Chicken Wing +3 on hit (no sHP after)
GEN
- EX Oga to be the same as Vanilla version (slower but full invincibility)
- MK and HK Gekiro back to Vanilla version (still useless as reversal but very good hitbox for anti-air)
- fix the style switch landing glitch
ONI
- better backdash
- more range to FA
RYU
- give him old cMK back.
YUN&YANG
- they need fixing but I hope they don’t become useless
- less active frames to palms, less meter building
- more damage scaling after the command throw
YANG
- more recovery to EX teleport
- LK roll kick 1 frame slower
- 2 frame less block/hitstun on divekick so he has to aim them better
YUN
- less range to sMP (this would solve soo many things)
- reduce command grab range
- make minimim height to divekick a bit higher
Ryu:
- reverse the nerf to solar plexus (DMG) and CR.MK (active frames & hitbox)
Gouken:
- change palm to LP = LP AE, MP = LP SSF4, HP = MP
- counter (Kongo) LP = feint, MP is low & mid, HP is high & AA
- hitconfirm CR.LP x2 in CR.MP x LP HADO x FADC CR.HK
- improve mid range pokes and combo options thereafter
- rethink EX fireballs, make them two hit but only one direction. Orientate to Juri in regard to angles input.
- better backdash for a keep away/defensive char
- maybe cancel backthrow in U1 for significant ground game buffs like hitconfirms, etc…
Twins:
- do not believe the whiners and only carefully nerf some aspects, do not nerf them to death
If capcom scouts really monitor this thread - unlikely I think - they should better look into the char sub forums…
supernovax, why would you want the fei’s HK wing invincibility back?
Restore Adon’s fast wake-up. He needs a defensive property and it added variety to the game. He wasn’t anywhere near OP when he had it, it just annoyed people that they couldn’t use their favorite set-ups against him.
a couple requests:
Yang - remove the ability to roll under fireballs from all the versions of yangs roll kick besides ex.
ibuki dont get to roll under fireballs on her l,m, and h nbs so why shud yang right?
Yun - Make it so u cant continue a combo after using U1 in genei jin.
hitting with a barley scaled ultra 1 and continuing ur genei jin combo is a little bit ridiculus if u asked me. also some damage nerfs are needed i think
Twins -make it harder for them to get their special meter up.
their specials are too good for it to be that easy to get up their meter. I still want the twins to be good but these requests arent to much to ask i think.
Fei long - dmg nerfs thats about it.
As for buffs idrk about everyone but i think that some of the lower tiers shud get some buffs so they are more usful in competitive play and i think a lot of people prolly agree with that. Id really like to see ibuki get some more good buffs. Im looking forward to see how capcom does this patch i really hope they put a lot of time into it since this will prolly be the last adaptation to this game. ill be waiting…
there’s nothing official about this thread.
do people enjoy playing yun, yang, fei, viper, seth, akuma? YES THEY DO
Do people enjoy playing ryu gouken, and other mid tier to low tier characters?** NOT AS MUCH AS THE GUYS ABOVE
**
So why do so many people think the answer is to nerf the top tier?
I play some mid/low tiers. here’s some simple ways to make them fun and good.
Blanka:
1.ex electricity hit (not throw) invincible on frame 2-10. This would allow ambiguous hop/leap wakeup offence but not a mashable reversal
2.blankas centre point to be advanced forward on his standing jab so you can cancel far jab into electricity and have it hit from max range (also gives kara throw boost)
3.Ex upball to knock down on hit.
you can tweak the + frames on fierce elec to prevent walking elec loop being broken. i don’t see any other issues, it certainly wouldn’t make him more annoying. He just has shades of ST throw range and cvs2 roll cancel elec but neither are as good. Rolls, which are annoying are still worthless.
Gouken:
- 4 frame cr.lk
- lp palm range extended to allow it to combo from max range cr.lk
- ex tatsu to hit crouchers and be 3 frames startup.
- level 2 fireball charge time reduced.
These tweaks allow the 2 characters to create safe offense, just like the current top tiers.
I think sagat ryu etc should be un nerfed, i’d lovet o see a fully playable cast who weren’t boring to play.
The only characters that I want to see nerfed are Yun and Yang.
Please don’t hit any other characters with the nerf stick, just give the weaker characters some much needed buffs and leave the good characters alone.
Since I’m a Rose player I only have realistic suggestions for her:
Being able to combo into U1 after a fierce reflect.
Faster (just about two frames) startup for U1.
Fierce reflect should have the same start up as her other two reflects.
Either improve the invincibility on her EX Drill or EX Soul Throw on start up.
Gouken
- 3-frame c.LP
- Give enough frames to link c.LP, s.HP/c.HP
- fs.LP, c.HK will link
- Change back grab into something else that does damage.
- Make current backtoss a command grab that will do damage if opponent lands on ground.
This gives him the ability to apply (well spaced) pressure and help fight off the rush downs with an equally useful poke.
I’m not a fan of nerfing things to heck.
I’d rather see weaker characters get something to benefit them.
Yun isn’t that crazy. Seeing Daigo get whomped like he did by Poongko and then eliminated by Latiff says plenty.
Lunge to ultra 1 isn’t that easy and ultra 1 doesn’t even do that much damage.
His only real change needed is ex lunge advantage to -1 or 0
someone stated making Yang’s light DP slower. Why? It’s fine.
I think Evil Ryu is easy to fix. He doesnt need much to be bumped up some tiers.
Evil Ryu
- Increase speed of his sweep to Akumas, so he can sweep all the people Akuma can after a tatsu + combo like him.
- Increase speed of cr.mk so he can combo it from cr.mp/jabs like Ryu.
- Increase speed on his jabs so that you dont have to speed up the other 2 attacks like hell.
- Faster hadoken!
- Do something about U2, like make it full animation on counterhit or something.
- U1 Charge is kinda useless, even if you charge a tiny bit, it wont let go in time and you’ll miss 90% of the time, even if you get the enemy from a AA SRK.
- Maybe give him +50 stun/life
These buffs are minimal but they would help ERyus game extremely. With that he can go constantly for the knockdown and mix the enemy up with divekicks etc, to keep staying in and make something out of his heavy damage.
My only request: Don’t nerf a single thing just give new options to those characters that can’t do nothing against something.
If you nerf one character option to solve it, then he will lack that option against other character and you will turn the unbalance having an unbalanced game forever.
Everyone wants his character to be powerful and with options but Dan players.
Repost from Capcom-Unity:
A couple of points.
-
No matter what Capcom does with this game, there will always be a very vocal percentage of players that will complain. Whatever Capcom does, do NOT make changes, based on appeasing these players. They will never be appeased, and you risk alienating the base of players that actually buys and plays your product.
-
I am honestly against the idea of a rebalance at all; I think the beauty in SF lies in the opportunity for player ingenuity, and Capcom is doing their games a disservice by robbing the community of that important opportunity. While I understood the changes while they were being monetized, I really don’t get the point of a free update, from a business perspective, and I don’t agree that it’s what the players actually want, but that’s another issue.
Whatever you guys do with AE, from this point… please leave it alone after that. Let the game develop. For all the whining and complaining about Yun and Yang, at Evo this past weekend, there was next to zero Yang representation, and the #1 Yun player in the world (the #1 OVERALL player in the world) fell to characters that are decidedly lower in the accepted rankings. If the BEST player, using the BEST character can be defeated, handily, then your game is pretty balanced, and it bodes well for the competitive viability of the game going into the future.
Do NOT CATER TO LAZY PLAYERS any longer. Especially in a free patch, there is no need to cater to lazy players. If this is, indeed, the last version of SF4, you guys have already monetized it as much as you can. The players that will continue to play after this patch are going to be the TRUE competitive players. Do NOT alienate them, in favor of a faction of players that only play your games on the surface level… for a month or so. You have an entire community, that is growing, based on SF4 being a very good COMPETITIVE game. Cater to that.
- That all being said, you’re going to change AE. It’s been announced, so we might as well get to the requests. I’ll start with non-gameplay related stuff.
A) The Replay Channel is still pretty bad. The search funciton is next to worthless, since it only searches for players currently sharing replays… and nobody ever does this. Instead of doing it like that, allow the search function to look for any current replays featuring that player. That way, I don’t have to scour the rankings, looking for matches with a particular player.
B) Drop the 5 player limit on follows. I don’t see why this is necessary at all. I had to create 3 new PSN accounts just to follow players, and that’s still not enough really. Unless there’s some real, technical limitations, preventing us from following more players, just remove the cap.
C) If you’re going to reset BP/PP again, I’d prefer if you used the BP algorithm from the arcade, personally. I mean, this is “Arcade Edition”, right? It is just more interesting. It is SUCH a grind to level up to Master rank on consoles. Literally, only a handful of players do it. While I don’t think it should be made incredibly easy, it should be significantly easier than it is. Anyone that can level up to Master rank in less than 15-20K matches, has to be a booster… and it shouldn’t take that long. In arcades, you can get to Master rank in just a couple of thousand matches… maybe it shouldn’t be quite that easy on console, but anything north of 10K matches, with a 80% win ratio is pretty ridiculous. Ranking people up, gives incentive to play, and grinding from A+ to Master takes FOREVER.
Ok… that’s it on the non-gameplay related stuff. Onto the important things.
A) DO NOT MAKE YUN/YANG/FEI WEAKER. Yun is a dynamic character, with a strong offense, and weaker defensive options. He HAS weaknesses. Make your players uncover them. Fei is a very strong, very safe character with a strong mid-range game, and a strong up close game. His range game is lacking, so the natural answer is to zone him out. Make your long-range fighters stronger again, and Fei will have issues. Fei is only SO good now, because the long-range characters were made too weak in AE. Make them strong again, WITHOUT MAKING FEI WEAKER, and he wil be more fair for the cast.
Yang is NOT on Yun or Fei’s level. People only complain about him, because they associate Yang with Yun. Please understand this. There is ZERO reason to make Yang weaker. He is a perfectly balanced character, and one of the most interesting characters I’ve ever played in a Capcom game (I’ve been playing competitively since CvS1 in 2000… casually before that). Do not let the whining class of players (whom, again, will not be appeased, no matter what you do… they complained about Sagat in SF4… Cammy in SSF4… and Yun in AE) ruin an amazingly complex character, with incredible potential. Please.
B) Viper, Ken, Sagat, Akuma, Blanka, Makoto and Seth are PERFECTLY TUNED CHARACTERS. They are exactly where they need to be. Perfectly capable of defeating anybody. Do NOT touch them.
C) The characters that were made weaker for AE, need to be restored to their SSF4 stature, if you MUST change the game.
Abel- Give Abel back his Breathless. Good players had ways around it. If you MUST change anything about Breathless from SSF4, remove his ability to cancel it. That way he’ll be up for FULL punishment whenever it is avoided. Slowing it down, removing armor on the moving portion, reducing damage, and having it take longer for recovery, essentially made it go from Breathless to Worthless in almost every single match-up. It was already on useful in a handful. Give it back. None of the other changes to Abel were very significant, so they can stay… Just give Breathless back. He needs it in some important fights.
Cammy- Just put her back to SSF4. She’s Ok now, but the entire game would be better, if she was VERY strong. She would give Yang issues (since he has a very hard time dealing with low Dive Kicks… another reason Yang doesn’t need to be made weaker…). Just give her back.
Adon- Give back his wake-up timing from SSF4. There was no reason to remove it.
Ryu- Give Ryu back his Low MK. That is a staple of Ryu’s arsenal. Make it good.
Honda- While I do agree that Honda needed a damage reduction… he didn’t need any other changes from SSF4 to AE. Give him his Headbutt back. Give him his U2 back.
Guile- Just put him back to SSF4 status. Exactly the way he was before. Guile will provide parity, and give defense a chance in SF4 again. People said he was too strong in SSF4, but I didn’t see Guile winning tournaments. At the end of the day, offense won out, and it still will. At least with a strong Guile, defene will have a chance. There is no need to overthink this one… just make him exactly like he was in SSF4.
Balrog (Boxer)- Same with Guile. Put him back to SSF4 status. That is all.
Bison (Dictator)- Give him back full damage on s. HK. He needs to be able to punish people for having a bad mid range game… Without that, he struggles to do damage. Give him that back. Return his U2 to SSF4 motion. He needs that. Changing pushback on Scissor Kicks wasn’t really necessary, but it’s not a huge deal either way. Good players knew how to avoid Scissor Kick traps anyway.
Dhalsim- I honestly don’t even know what changed with Sim from SSF4 to AE… I just know he’s less effective. I don’t know if it’s the overall direction of the game that made him comparatively weaker, or if he was actually made weaker himself… either way, there needs to be SOMETHING done to allow him to deal with high-powered offense better. The problem with this is that if you give him a tool to deal with high powered offense, that might make him way too effective against offenses that aren’t quite as strong, and Dhalsim will just dominate the game. If you have to choose between Sim dominating, and Sim losing to high powered offense, I’d choose the latter. At the end of the day, he’s just one character. There’s no need to fundamentally change the game, just so one character can be optimal.
Chun Li- Give her back everything she had before. She was a dynamic character, albeit slower paced. She fit well. There was no need to make her d/f LK any worse. She didn’t need to be made weaker. Now she is too weak. Rebuild her to SSF4 status.
Rose- Same. Rebuild her to SSF4 status. Restore Soul Satelite. She absolutely needs it, especially in a game with higher powered offenses. In all honesty, that move isn’t even enough. She still wouldn’t dominate. Stop catering to lazy players when making changes. Players that couldn’t account for Soul Satelite are not players that even understand all the changes you make to your games. There is no need to cater to that.
Fuerte- In the same boat… players that complain about Fuerte aren’t players you need to listen to. Give Fuerte back everything that you took away from him. He needs that, at least. He honestly needs more than that, but I’m no Fuerte expert, so I can’t say much. I will say, that much like Dhalsim, Fuerte is the kind of character that can completely ruin a game, competitively, if he is too good. You should make a real attempt at making Fuerte more vialbe, but do not bend overy backwards for him.
Rufus- Still good enough to win. Restore his damage on Messiah Kick to SSF4 level. He’s fine with that.
Dee Jay- I think Dee Jay is on the right track. Maybe some tiny changes to Air Slasher (slight damage increase, or meter build increase) should be enough. He is fundamentally strong, and will get better over time.
Evil Ryu- Maybe give him a tiny bit more health.
Gen- Just put him back to original SF4 status. Let us have some fun with him.
Juri- I think Juri is capable. Maybe a tiny increase in damage on a couple of her moves, but overall, she is strong. She just needs more time to develop.
Dudley- Give him more range on cr. MK. That would make a WORLD of difference with him.
Zangief- Let his EX Green Hand knock down again.
I’m not terribly knowledgeable on the other characters. I supposed Hakan, Cody, Hawk, Vega (Claw), Dan and Gouken need SOMETHING to make them more viable. Guy as well. Nothing huge for Guy, Cody or Gouken… they’re each just missing one tiny thing.
Vega, Hawk, Dan and Hakan could use a few new tools.
Overall, just please don’t make ANY character weaker. AE is a very exciting game (as seen at Evo) BECAUSE of strong characters. Your design philosophy of making VERY strong characters was not wrong… the problem people had with AE is that you made Yun EXTREMELY strong, but at the same time, decided that characters that were never as strong as Yun, to begin with, needed to be made weaker. They don’t. Restore the strength of previously strong characters, keep the presently strong characters where they are at, and try to make as many of the other characters as vialble as you can. Please. Please, please DO NOT MAKE ANY CHARACTERS WEAKER THAN WHAT THEY CURRENTLY ARE.
Thank you.
I like your point of view HAV and I agree. It should be a game full of strong characters and not a game of where everyone can just barely stand his ground. I really like the idea of giving Cammy back her old self but compared to Ryu thats like nothing. His cr.mk buff alone wouldnt be good enough to compare to Cammy. I think everyone should be buffed equally so that nearly everyone ends up as high tier. Also some nerfs to Yun/Yang should be made, I love fighting them and with them but in the end of the day they are just too strong. Im not talking about a nerf like Sagat from Vanilla->Super but some little things that dont make them “free to play”, especially yun.
What I always thought of is why they dont get like 10-15 top players, each from America, Asia, Europe to make a writeup on each character and have them compare those files and make some decision, instead of listening to crybabys who lost to yun once and think no one will ever beat him.
addition to the main post
my whishlist
claw
the super ed. damage back.
the super ch back
rog
headbutt to ultra super damage back
Gen
let’s give em this ex.ouga inv like it was in vanilla. they’re asking for it for ages
Dan
a little more range to fireball
i-frame on the first roll of the legendary taunt
hakan
less time to oil up
Juri
more damage on fireball
elf
+1 fa on hit on s.hp (making the loop easier)
Viper
consider the various tk cancel or seismo cancel like if the hitted the opponent for damage scaling
chun
+1f on c.hp start-up (removing the loop)
better fa on non ex.sbk
Gief
old lp.spd range
+10 dmg on lp.spd to make up for it
T.Hawk
faster startup con on condor spire (the one travelling horizzontal)
Gouken
a decent hit confirm combo
DJ
more damage on fireball
i would add 2-3 i-frame to mgu
Cody/Rose
make the slides unsafe on block (i would say make em -2 if they hit with the tip).
General:
fix hurtbox in a way to avoid unblockable
that’s it
my2cent
Please make Juri kill every other character in the game with just one punch to the face. Thank you!
Great post, might want to change the font to black, though.
You forgot to ask them for hitbox, hurtbox and reelback fixes :[