I gave up on the vaporware known as undamned’s board. I use a MAK Strike supergun (small and cheap) running RGB into a Sony PVM-20L5 CRT. Super Turbo looks amazing on it…and of course there is 0 lag.
-Jim
got more test results tonight.
shmupmame + 2012 macbook air => mini-displayport-to-vga => CRT at 800x600
same result as core2duo laptop => CRT
average 4.3
http://www.2shared.com/video/VS5_WaGl/macbook_shmup_crt.html
just to verify the claim of shmupmame having 1 frame less lag, I did a control test of
mame 0148 + 2012 macbook air => mini-displayport-to-vga => CRT at 800x600
mame has consistently 1 more frame than shmupmame
http://www.2shared.com/video/mWzlY4cm/macbook_mame_crt.html
the last test is interesting
shmupmame + 2012 macbook air => macbook lcd at 1440 x 900 native resolution
half of them were 4 frames and half of them were 5 frames
average 4.5 which is extremely good.
not to mention portable!
(we played a bunch at NCR using this setup)
http://www.2shared.com/video/JpPFO8Nj/macbook_shmup_lcd.html
OK I think I’ve done all the meaningful tests I could think of
ps2 hyper street fighting turbo2 fei long stage timer
52.1 seconds (1 second faster than arcade)
http://www.2shared.com/video/Zn8AUZg7/ps2_hsf_turbo2_feilong_stage.html
ps2 hyper street fighting turbo2 => CRT (NKI test)
5~6 frames
http://www.2shared.com/video/OB2xnc2I/ps2_hsf_turbo2_rh.html
core2duo laptop shmupmame => laptop lcd (NKI test)
4.5 frames (same as macbook)
http://www.2shared.com/video/1OOZX-8R/core2duo_shmup_us_turbo2_lcd_r.html
core2duo laptop ggpo final burn alpha us_turbo2 CRT (both fullscreen & window)
6 frames
http://www.2shared.com/video/6Ooqseee/core2duo_ggpo_us_turbo2_CRT_rh.html
http://www.2shared.com/video/LEEJo4id/core2duo_ggpo_us_turbo2_CRT_rh.html
desktop i5 2500k with radeon 6800 => laggy dell lcd
6 frames
http://www.2shared.com/video/EHEFq4Nd/i5desktop_shmup_us_turbo2_lagg.html
Updated #3 post with all the results.
Thanks for the expansive testing! Can you tell us more about your setup post-computer? I.e., components, cables, CRT, etc.?
-Jim
You can find out here.
One more update regarding playing laggy online matches using laggy monitor with a laggy emulator.
As shown above, final burn alpha has 2 more frames of input lag when playing offline on a lagless CRT.
2/60 = you are deprived of 3.33% of a second to react to any moves.
Stage time for ggpo final burn alpha turbo 2/1/0
turbo 2 (52.5 seconds)
turbo 1 (53.9 seconds)
turbo 0 (55.1 seconds)
With turbo speed set to turbo 1, the game is 2.67% slower overall. But it still does not feel as responsive as arcade.
With turbo speed set to turbo 0, the game is 4.95% slower overall, you have enough time to react but your input will still come out slower.
And that was for offline.
When online lag comes into play, you can see that playing at a slower turbo setting will be better.
HUGE thanks to Papasi for conducting all of these tests. This could definitely be an ideal solution for all those who wish to organize an ST event locally or at a major but do not have access to arcade equipment. All that’s really needed is further playtesting. This is where the ST community comes to play. If we can get some thorough playtesting amongst the entire community we can easily come to find the best settings that match the arcade pcb identically. Case in point, Papasi mentioned at 99% Speed on T2 (US version) seems to be the best to mirror the US board, whereas on 97% speed on T3 (JPN version) seems to mirror the JPN board on my end.
At present based off Pap’s test, ShmupMame is REALLY close to matching the PCB in terms of input lag. It’s actually even more responsive than the DC version. So what that actually means in terms of practical use --> Shmupmame 4.2 + Evo Asus monitor = roughly around 1 frame above Arcade, which is exactly the DC version (DC = +1 frame compared to Arcade). This already places the setup well ahead of Classic Mode (360) and even better than DC, since that version is actually constrained to a CRT, not unless one uses the VGA Box for DC (which looks extremely pixelated). Of course, we as the community can strive for even better than just settling with 1 frame (which is really good btw!), by opting to use a better LCD than the Evo Asus(there are quite a few listed on the sub-1frame monitor thread via Tech Talk). There’s even the possibility that the emulator can actually match the board 100% by just adjusting more settings within the Emulator…we just need more people to actually test and compare notes =)
The only problem with the PS/2 Keyboard route is that it is limits who can utilize their own hardware. Sure the organizer can have a few modified keyboard arcade sticks, but that does not solve the issue of allowing players to use their own stick/pad and in essence, forces a particular controller on the players. This method is also what limited the supergun route in terms of flexibility, until Undamned changed everything by releasing his consolised CPS2 setup and usb jamma adapters.
Regarding USB input lag…has it been 100% confirmed that all arcade usb sticks actually poll at 125 hz (8ms) on a pc? I did the USB poll rate hack (which for some reason only recognizes my MadCatz SFxTekken stick, but not my modded sticks via PS360 chip) and I didn’t notice any difference between playing at 1000hz (1ms) or the default 125hz. Which makes me wonder if either:
A) all arcade sticks poll at 1000hz
B) the USB poll rate program didn’t actually register the stick
I’ve never seen any CONFIRMATION of the arcade stick poll rate. Would love to. Right now, if playing on the computer, I use a separate USB controller for gaming (have a bunch of stuff plugged into my “main” usb controller).
-Jim
Papasi, would you mind running some tests with HLSL on / off? I’d like to see how much lag such filtering adds, if any. HLSL makes the VIEWING experience significantly better.
I don’t know what is HLSL. I have already torn down the setup. but if i were to run tests in the future, i’ll keep that in mind.
Killer thread… great contribution as always, you rule paps, too bad i only play offline st like 1 time in a month sometimes every two months, it sucks i know 
, anyway i have to download this when i get home and give it a try.
Its a filtering mechanism built into MAME that makes it look tolerable (adds scanlines, stuff like that) on a standard computer LCD. Stock, most games look pretty atrocious.
-Jim
how do i get this shit to work? i can’t launch any of the games.
if you don’t have the roms in the DEFAULT dir it wont run
You can change the default roms dir by opening up MameGUI.exe in the shmupmame folder and going to Options -> Directories -> MAME Paths or by editing mame.ini once that file is generated.
Weird things about changing the options in MameGUI, though… once you edit an option you have to at least select or go to another option for it to save the field you just changed. And if an ini file was already generated for whatever game you’re trying to edit, it doesn’t seem to save the new option at all… so you either edit it in the game’s ini or just delete it and start fresh.
This is awesome… but my ST rom DOESNT work with this MAME (it worked with other MAME, FBA, GGPO and Kawaks). Any tips?
Also my NeoGeo games and HyperFighting and lotsa other games, just a few appear playable! wtf
You need to update your rom set. For help, use Google or try talking to people in GGPO.
That means i have to download EACH rom again? Just because this MAME doesnt support them (but every other emu i have do?)?
You shouldn’t have to. I’m utilizing the same exact one used for prior MAME’s and GGPO FBA. I’m guessing a re-audit did not help?