Official NBA IS BACK CKRAZY SEASON 3 FANTASY FUN LEAGUE CHAMPION NEVER FORGET!

If I could choose one player that was considered a point guard to start a franchise around, I would pick LeBron.

I think that is what that original (very wise and handsome) poster was trying to say.

lol
I am not dissing you or anything sir but…
Lebron at point would be a nightmare…for all the right and wrong reasons, i listed a few reasons up above.

I would pick Gasol. Dude’s averaging four assists as a center this year, and he’s like the best passing big man in the league. He’s never played point but imagine his court vision and passing skills being fully utilized as a PG.

I never really saw what was so great about Deron Williams, in the sense that he’s mentioned alongside Chris Paul and it’s taken for granted that he’s better than Rondo. Since SRK loves stats, he shoots a worse FG% than CP3 and Rondo, especially so far this season, and his three % is only a tiny bit higher than Rondo and much less than CP3. He beats Rondo in FT% (Rondo’s somehow getting worse lol) but loses badly in assists. He loses to CP3 in both. He scores more than both, but then again he does it less efficiently. His PER is less than both players, but almost exactly the same as Rondo’s. I just don’t see it statwise.

Disregarding stats, since the only way to tell if a player is good is to actually watch him, him and Rondo seem to be about equal, although I’ve watched about 20 times as many Celtics game as Jazz. Williams scores more and Rondo racks up more assists is the only difference. I don’t really know much about Westbrook. I need to watch more of his games.

Okay, you and I clearly have very different definitions of what makes a good point guard.

As for Nash being the best passer, that’s no foregone conclusion. He’s a great passer and assist man, but his numbers have definitely been aided by the system he’s played in. And being as bad at something as he is at defense has to count for something. What makes Nash a better passer than Chris Paul? What makes him a better passer than Williams or Rondo?

Uh…clearly someone is not giving the reigning two time NBA All-Star Weekend Skills Challenge champion his proper credit in being able to get teammates off.

Nash’s 2 Skills Challenge championships > Deron’s 1 > Paul’s 0.

CASE CLOSED

Shaq was always a really great passer as well. His handle, I don’t know.

QUICKLY, best player that is at least 6’10" that would realistically make the best point guard, ANSWER NOW

Bargnani…? I think he could do it. If you just looked at his stats you would be like “Wow, this SG even blocks shots!”

I bet JaVale McGee would make an awesome point guard, but I don’t know how good his passing is. It would just be awesome to see him bring the ball up though.

ALL-NBA SEVEN FEET TALL AND ABOVE FIRST TEAM
PG - McGee
SG - Bargnani
SF - Dirk
PF - Gasol
C - Duncan

…I think that would be a pretty good team, actually.

Wtf… Why are you acting like what I stated is like so farfetched??

Have you not watched Nash over the years??

He is a PURE passer, not just flashy but his vision,fitting passes into tight spots, placing the ball up and away from opponents etc. Nash is a Quarterback style PG.

He uses his soccer game play and incorperates them into his game

Most of the other PG’s in the league aren’t on the level of passing as Nash is and if we are going to just run to the excuse “Product of a system” there is no use having this discussion. I am not saying NO ONE can pass but I am saying in regards to the style in which he passes,you can include the flash etc, Steve Nash is in a league of his own.

Deron Williams is great at the pick and role, he also has great court vision,he utilizes his size better then other guards similar to his height and weight (Jameer Nelson as an example does not do this as well), Deron is the type of PG you could see in say Gregg Pop scheme, or the Triangle with Phil Jackson or in Boston, hell even Orlando.
He takes good shots and his decision making is uncanny. Not high on turnovers either.

Rajon Rondo may be a product of his environment/system but in all honesty,if we had to compare him and the rest of these PG’s to the leagues past greats,Rondo would be close to Gary “The Glove” Payton,yes he is missing a legit 3 point shot but it took GP a while to develop one as well and Rondo hasn’t until landing in boston,been given a shot to show his true potential.

Another category you all should add to this list of PG attributes is, “Who can get guaranteed garbage & average players $100billion dollar contracts” Which Steve Nash is also a king of… Jason Kidd too lol

Of course you don’t see it statwise. You’re looking at 12 games and projeting Rondo as better than he really is. Rondo’s averaging almost 15 assists a game. He’s been great, but do you seriously think he’s going to keep that up? :rofl: @ Deron Williams “losing badly in assists.” Williams has averaged more assists than Rondo for eternity. Last year was the only year Rondo got even close to Williams’s output. So Rondo has a hot streak to start this seaosn and all of a sudden he’s better than Deron as an assist man? Come on, you’re not that stupid. Let him keep that up for a season before you try to suggest something like that.

Rondo beats Williams in FG% because (to his credit) he understands his limitations and rarely shoots unless it’s an easy opportunity. You can’t compare what he does as a scorer to what Williams does. They’re not in the same universe. Williams takes more shots because he can make more shots. Williams gets challenged on the perimeter because he’s a threat to score from out there. Rondo gets left alone because he’s not. See the difference? Also, Williams is a good bet to shoot around 47% while Rondo shoots around 50%. It’s not big enough of a difference to be considered an advantage for Rondo, especially since Rondo is awful at shooting free throws for a guard.

Also, you have got to be on drugs talking about Williams and Rondo are close in 3 point shooting. Rondo is a career 24% shooter from behind the arc. Williams shoots 36% career. Yes, Rondo is shooting 33% right now to Williams’s 35%. That’s on 6 shots. 2 out of 6. You really want to say they’re close based on six shots? If Rondo misses his next 2 (which is not exactly a stretch) he’ll be at 25%. If Williams misses his next 2, he’ll be at 34%. This is just common sense stuff here.

So, to recap: Williams is a better shooter, scorer, and passer than Rajon Rondo. Rondo is coming up as a passer and distributor, and he may be able to match Williams there soon, but that is his only true offensive strength. They wouldn’t even belong in the same discussion if Rondo wasn’t the best defensive 1 in the league. That gets them close, but Williams is still better until Rondo gives anybody a reason to believe otherwise.

Who said anything was far fetched? You missed the joke.

So why is it not okay for me to suggest that his numbers are inflated by the system he plays in (which is pretty much undeniable) but it’s okay for you to say Nash is the best passer and just leave it at that? It’s a lazy, empty form of discussion, and it has no meaning. If you can’t tell me why he’s better, then there’s no point in saying he’s better.

Everything you just described about about Nash, I’ve seen Paul and Williams done plenty of times. So how si Nash better? I’m not saying he’s not better’ I’m saying you can’t just say “he’s better” and just leave it at that.

Dude you are arguing for the sake of arguing… it’s undeniable just WATCHING Steve Nash over the years, the way he SEE’s the game, Plays it at his position, there are a bunch of copy cats but he is still in a league of his own.

I see C.Paul do his thing YES but I don’t see him do it to the calibur of S.Nash,from his success in all-star games, overrated stats of Marion,Amare and many more at to this as well

You saying his numbers are larger due to the system I am against because S.Nash is the Quarterback of PG’s, PG’s wish they could behind the back like him and not cause multiple crossovers (Jason “White Chocolate” Williams),PG’s wish they could pick and pop,run and gun,stop and go, like S.Nash, outside being a shutdown defender at his position, he isn’t Mark Price,John Stockton,Isiah Thomas, he is the next level.

I mean you have seen this man play so why am I pointing you in the direction of watching his games to see what it is he does and has done over the years,that sets him part from all the rest?

You forgot about Mr. Kardashian. He has the best handles for a big man. I think Kevin Durant is 6’10. He has terrific handles as well.

Replace McGee and LOL Bargnani and you’re set.

ALL-NBA SEVEN FEET TALL AND ABOVE FIRST TEAM
PG - Kardashian
SG - Durant
SF - Dirk
PF - Gasol
C - Duncan

#1 D-Will
#2 Paul
#3 Nash (subject to drop to #5)
#4 Rondo
#5 Rose (tie)
#5 Westbrook (tie)
After that, who cares? These are the elite.

Deron is #1 because he combines the best of all the guys in the Top 5 and has no weaknesses. He runs the best and most efficient offensive machine in the NBA (other than the triangle) and is its catalyst. His jumper isn’t water like Nash but it’s better than everybody else on the list. You can’t stop him from penetrating, he runs the P&R 2nd only to Nash. The best post up player of anybody on the list. The best post up defender of anybody on the list. He’s not Rondo/Paul in that he’s gonna pick your pocket but he gets his steals. Gets more 3 point plays than anybody on the list because he’s a strong dude and is fearless. And he hits big shots too.

CP3 is great. Especially with the ball in his hands. And he’ll pick your pocket too. His jumper is a set shot which basically means he ain’t hitting shit if you hound him late in the shot clock. He will always have prettier stats than D-Will because the Hornets run EVERYTHING through him and run no assemblance of an offense. It’s just P&R, run around, P&R, run around, maybe throw it in the post to West, P&R, run around all day. He is Deron’s bitch when they play against each other and usually Deron puts him in foul trouble by posting him up.

Nash with the ball is the best PG in the NBA and probably it’s best marksman. Has a dizzing array of shots and floaters and bounce passes. That Phoenix team is shit but Nash makes them look like good players. There isn’t a player on that team that is worth a shit except Lopez. Problem is, without the ball Nash is fucking worthless. He’s a human turnstile and gets bumped out of the way easily on rebounds by even the lightest of guards. Also, Father Time is coming for that ass. Haven’t seen enough Phoenix games to tell if he’s lost a step or not though.

Rondo is magician with the ball. He’s really frail so you would think he wouldn’t get boards but he’s sneaky and very smart. Reads caroms and passes and dribbles better than anybody on this list. That’s why he’s the best defender and rebounder on this list. Has no real jumper. You can tell he doesn’t shoot… he aims. He MIGHT b a product of having all those great players around him but I don’t think so. Rebounds and steals are about desire and determination. The kids got that.

Rose is a fucking assassin. He’s got the quickest and most devastating 1st step I’ve seen in the NBA since Grant Hill before his first ankle injury. He’s also a one man fastbreak and when he goes baseline it’s a wrap. I’ve never seen a guy get so many reversals game in, game out. Not imprssed by him defensively. And maybe it’s just me, but I think the guy is a robot because his facial expression never changes.

Westbrook is a bad dude. He reminds me of Deron without a postgame and an unecessary need to dunk on people. Better on-ball defender than Deron too. His jumper is so-so but he has improved it noticeably this year.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

DW>CP3.

True, the season is young and Rondo probably won’t keep averaging 14 assists. Then again, if he sacrifices his points to feed everyone else, he’ll be pretty close considering his supporting cast. I’m not sure about his 3 point shooting not “really” being 33%. He has improved that part of his game, as well as his overall jumper, but he only really shoots them when he needs to. I think that ppg and long range shooting ability are being given too much emphasis in this debate, considering their position (I do agree that Rondo’s FT% is atrocious, inexcusable, and his main weakness). They both do what’s best for their team and they do it well.

But forgetting about Williams vs. Rondo for now, CP3 is also in the discussion. I think you can legitimately argue about Rondo vs. Williams, although not many people agree until playoff time when Rondo suddenly becomes MVP every year, but CP3? He’s the best.

I actually agree with PG ranking discussions being fun. Has there ever been another time when there have been so many good point guards leaguewide? I don’t even care who’s best- they’re all so good.

EDIT: And yeah, Nash is still insane. Midway through last decade he had like 4 or 5 years of Magic Johnson level play. I don’t get to watch him too much now but it looks like he’s still playing at a really high level. 5 years ago he was clearly the best and he can’t be any lower than 4th or 5th now, if that.

So you’re going with the lazy argument again. Okay. consider it dead.

Read Swordsmans post on Nash or read **HoneyBBQGrundle last paragraph
**

I like these arguments about impossible to determine subjective qualities like “who is a better passer” and it boils down to a hilarious pissing contest about how has watched more actual NBA games with Player A and Player B, like that means anything.

Warp is right, I can always assert that Jose Calderon is the greatest half court bounce passer in the entire league, and no one can ever prove me wrong because they don’t Raptors games and I can never convince anyone I’m right because no one watches Raptors games.

Once we get to the point where people are going “HAVE YOU WATCHED THE GAMES?” then it just gets silly.

AND HILARIOUS

Okay fine, they would make the 6’10" and above team.

But not the ALL-NBA SEVEN FEET TALL AND ABOVE FIRST TEAM.

I kind of switched the criteria halfway through the post, it was a trick question designed to test your reading comprehension. I am tricky like that.

My cousin fucked up his ACL playing basketball. :rofl: He basically gave me a lecture on ACL and meniscus, last night at Thanksgiving. I’m a little worried about Brandon Roy now. The way he made it sound like Broy is toast unless he learns how to shoot like Nash. :sad:

Tyreke Evans been sucking it up lately too.

Such a disappointing year for me. LeBron, Evans, Twill all playing like SHIT.

Models are playing like shit despite being 3-0.

Man I hate you Clint. You made me believe that this was going to be the best basketball year in history of basketball! IT WAS A LIE!

YOU LIED!

ACL is overrated to Dejuan Blair lol.

I read Swordsman’s post and agree with almost everything…and it in no way addresses what I asked of you. In fact, it emphasizes what I’ve said all along…that Nash is a great passer and the best shooting point guard in the league, but he’s a poor (and declining) defender, not as great as he used to be on offense (though still very, very good), and gets overpowered in virtually every phase of the game when he doesn’t have the ball. The last paragraph is being addressed later.

I don’t get the people putting Rose at 7. I feel like you haven’t really watched him play or seen the limitations he operates under. To me, just like TIS said, my top 6 were the elite, and then it was the guys who are pretty good/the up-and-comers. In fact, I did top 10 because I couldn’t justifiably cut it off at 5. The players in that range are so close…that’s why it was kind of surprising to see all the objections to me having Nash at 6. Tony Parker is good, but he’s not elite anymore. He’s great at getting to the basket, but that’s his primary strength, and Rose is better than him at that. He’s also better at getting hurt and missing chunks of the season lately.

It’s not about points per game. If it was, would i have blown up the suggestion of Brandon Jennings on this list and had Rondo in my top 5? It’s about ability, contribution, and the options the player adds to the team. A point guard who can score from the perimeter draws the defense outward, which produces opportunities to drive and score. A point guard who can score in the paint collapses the defense, producing opportunities for other players to hit open jumpers. As for Rondo’s three point shooting improving? He shot 21% last season. that’s awful. He’s taken 6 shots this year, and you think he’s improved? Maybe he has improved, but there’s no way you can tell on the strength of six shots. Period. Let him earn it.

Also, Nash never approached Magic Johnson levels of play. He was really good, but not only was he not quite as good as Magic on the offensive side of the floor, he wasn’t in the same galaxy as Magic on defense.

That’s why I got Aldrige and Batum! BATOOOOM.

PS - Dejuan Blair should be called the hovercraft because he doesn’t use his knees. I have no idea if that makes sense, but I just want to call a player the hovercraft. I will do so from now on as if that has always been his nickname.

I watched a Raptors game the other day, and Jose really did have amazing Bounce passes. He also almost always passed it to Bargs first. It was pretty lolz.