Hahaha, most excellent.
hahaahhaahahahahha to good lol
damdai special carribian kumite
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/2r6AM-Pbws/S_hiQPqo3kI/AAAAAAAAAVk/wDTVR19pBcQ/s1600/Enter-The-Dragon-427867.jpg
damdai
http://www.hbosouthasia.com/images/posters/378x195/enter_the_dragon.jpg?1169177913
DGV
http://www.asiateca.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/bbjones.jpg
papasi vs DGV
Look it comes down to these statements about Hawk and his trap…
The fact that it takes 1 - 3 years to master any of the said techniques to play Hawk means they are difficult to use proficiently. I don’t see a problem with that. In 99.9999% of the matches that take place in the USA and its accompanying ST support system, GGPO, CPS, and even HDR classic you are not going to run into that kind of Hawk anyway. Less Damdai, if he’s really going taking the time to learn it.
Moreover, if you come across a player who can actually play T.Hawk that way in a real game, they?ve already played grip of highly focused, high level ST and are going to be a great ST player with solid fundamentals anyway. I’d bet more than likely they?d be very competitive and could still win even without the loop.
Even in Japan, even though it is not unheard of, you RARELY see a Hawk place in top 3. Sure you have X7 with the two man Hawk team getting 3rd in a 3 man tourney. But that was an outlier. Overall seeing Hawk?s performance in Japan over the years I have been following ST tells me 3 things:
(1) Even with the loop Hawk has a tough time winning.
(2) The loop is STILL damn hard even with years of practice.
(3) Hawk still is NOT a top tier character.
If a player wants to practice for 1-3 years with a character and is still ?just? barely competitive on the highest levels of gameplay in japan, let them. It great the game has some to offer that type fo player.
You explained much better than I did!
@DJ
You disappointed me without photoshopping the names in the first pic before posting 
BTW that’s not me vs DGV.
I’m the scrubby guy that go along with Bruce Lee to the tower of the game of death who can’t even get pass the first level.
Then Bruce Lee kicked me out and proceed to beat the crap out of DGV ^^
And we all know Daigo is Bruce Lee ^^ They are both pretty handsome and composed. Daigo needs more fire though. But his combo is as good as Bruce Lee’s, maybe better XDDDDDD
I Love Bruce Lee, that Chicken Wing in the last pic is awesome!
Making it as easy as QCF is a CRIME.
Out of curiosity, why do you say this? The new 360 motions are irrelevant because you can do them the old way and it works fine.
Actually, I believe that move was not used in SF. It is a special move in World Heroes, if anyone played that crappy game. Whoever was a bad enough player to not realize it sucked ass probably played it. I know I did, it was actually a good move. Sort of broken, in fact.
That same scene has a rekka punch combo when the tall guy is about to lose.
I’ll agree that this mindset is very problematic. I see reasonable and unreasonable arguments on both sides of the fence attacking the other, and that’s just silly.
Some people might noticed there are some Jeff “LAAkuma” Schaefer’s videos on the front page.
The first video “How to be the best player” is very helpful and in fact I planned to do what he said 3 months ago but I just didn’t find the time to do that (because I want to do it in a way which I can share my findings). But people have been sharing their knowledge of the game in the interviews so that’s great.
[media=youtube]w-yKEeh70R8[/media]
The next few videos he talked about game designs so it is some what relevant to this thread. He briefly commented on Anniversary Edition and HDR which echo how some of us felt about the game - there are too little changes to feel like a different game (yet not consistent with the changes). [Note : the guy is not a fan of Super Turbo or SF3 either, because of the super meter]
Then he proceeded to talk a lot about game design (sf specific).
His view of the super reflects how some people felt that boxer is overpower - his super is too good and does too much damage. So slightly adjusting chunli’s super damage output in HDR is a good thing. But that needs to be done across the board, including boxers and other powerful super.
Then he discuss how sf4 (aka jab fighter 4)'s jab hit confirm is stupid. Taking no skills for a hella damage (also why people hate 3s chun’s low forward hit confirm). And he thinks moves/combos that require skills to perform should take more damage than moves that are easy to perform.
Some OG player hates dashing in sf4 because it removes the zoning equation from the game. Oh if I’m in a bad position just dash! His view is that dashing is useful to make the game not a turtle fest but dashing should not be free (he suggests taking 1/4 of your meter).
Then he talked about some of the stuff that sf2 players really hates about sf4 - 0 damage tech throws. It makes the game so slow peace and defensive. His view of no block meter vs awarding the player that is applying pressure is very interesting.
In the 2nd short video he talks about importance of a useful training mode and UI design in the game.
From this series of videos, I think Jeff is thinking capcom’s sf5 is already in the pipeline
[media=youtube]wHzsPoE7qSs[/media]
[media=youtube]-QdkzE734uo[/media]
[Edit : @geo A flop can mean several things. Is it well received? And revenue != profit. Only capcom knows whether they make money and how much with HDR. MVC2 sold more and they didn’t redo the art ($$$) or redesign (time). BTW ggpo fba makes CPS2 games look hella good with Video > Select Blitter > Enhanced]
I was reading the other thread and had to respond to this, but not in that thread…
- How do you accidentally join a classic match on XBL?
- How do you even find one purposely? You should play the lottery cause i NEVER see classic rules matches EVER! if i did i would play there more often.
In his video he refers to HDR being a “flop” which “soured” Capcom on working with an independent designer (such as Sirlin). That is simply not true:
I would not say it is the super meter itself, but the damage the move does and how easy it is for a few characters with powerful supers to fill it. Ryu, Chun and Rog, for instance.
Have you EVER actually contributed anything to any discussion?
The only thing I actually like about SF4 (which, technically they took from SF3) is the use of EX moves and the strategy involved with meter management. Though it is kinda dumb when the EX version of a move is the only usefull one (Chun’s SBK, for example).
It’s the Ultra moves I can’t stand (along with dashing, Focas attacks, tech throws, etc).
He didn’t mean that AE and HDR were financial flops…
Since he was referring to the perspective of Capcom, in what other sense could he mean it? Capcom care foremost about the financial return from their investment.
If you’re saying it was a “flop” from his personal perspective because of the game design, then that’s a purely subjective thing. He can call it a flop if he likes, that’s his opinion I guess.
Okay, look. The severity of the unstoppability of T.Hawk’s safe loops has been blown out of proportion here (and many places).
“bu…bu…u sed…”
The entire sequence leading up to and including the loop isn’t broken. As many of you have stated, it’s extremely difficult to execute consistently, as well as to even get into the position to do so in the first place. Many, many ToD combos and tight fireball traps are much scarier in regular, day-to-day higher level play.
Here’s the thing though…it’s still not good game design.
If you get in and hit the command throw or the installed Rising Hawk, you’ve dealt good damage and are in a position to repeat the process the overwhelming majority of the time. Positional advantage, punishment…great so far.
If you don’t hit, though (as in if you screw up very slightly or your opponent is both skilled and fortunate enough to even begin to escape), you’re still safe, and in a decent position to hit them for more damage or even still repeat while still minimizing your risk. This is the fighting game equivalent of bullying a five-year-old by holding him away from you at arm’s length. Sure, it’s entertaining and hilarious to a degree, but it’s still horribly lopsided, and not really a “fight” at all at that point.
So basically it’s not broken in ST, but I can totally understand why Sirlin opted to add the whiff to T.Hawk in HDR. It opened him up to be more capable of handling other tweaks with less risk of making such a situation even easier to exploit. (I also agree that Hawk could have used a bit more of said tweaking, though for the record he’s my main in HDR and is still quite effective.) Saying that you prefer it one way or the other is one thing; berating Sirlin for not knowing enough about T.Hawk or the game in general is unfairly venomous and very short-sighted.
Now don’t get me wrong; the fact that you can’t option select certain things like overly aggressive Boxers on wakeup, or Honda in particular when you get in his face, is a great loss, much more so than that loop. You adapt, though, and that’s okay; such a huge potential reversal in pace, life total, and position should involve some risk, so I don’t mind. Cornering someone and worrying about how best to mix up your install, ticks, and all of the other split-second “what-ifs” so that your opponent can’t adapt easily still requires great time and skill to master; as damdai summed it up (and I’m paraphrasing here), real depth is great design.
The real dilemma is this: How do you innovate with SFII after so many years, how do you promote and deepen that depth, and still have it “be” SFII?
As far as Classic mode is concerned, it just doesn’t quite feel like the same game. Yes, the sprites, backgrounds, and other small changes do make that big of a difference. Simply giving some basic filtering options on the old visuals along with selectable menu options for everything from sound effects to old character codes would not have required much work to implement, but would have gone a long way to getting the classic feel right. Sure, ultra-purists would have quickly noted things like milliseconds of lag on consoles, or a lack of timing changes on various stages, but at least it would have really “felt” like ST. It might play like ST, but if it doesn’t feel like classic ST, it just…isn’t.
That’s easy, there is no dilemma. We’ve seen the most innovative new addition to ST already. It already happened and people use it every single day. It’s something that changed the way ST is played and is still continually changing the landscape of the entire fighting game scene to this very day. It’s online play, specifically GGPO. ST is one of the best games on GGPO in terms of functionality compared to playing offline. Sure it’s not perfect, frames drop or skip, there is input delay, speeds are different, it’s the World Regional version for some reason, but at the end of the day GGPO has been a tremendous asset to the ST community and was a major step forward for the scene. GGPO was the evolution of ST, the true evolution of ST, not consoles, not AE, not HDR, just an online functional version of the ST arcade rom.
With GGPO I am regularly able to play people like RoyBisel, SteveTren, CigarBoB, and so on, without having to leave my living room or travel by plane. I can spectate high level Japanese players like Jodim, Baby_Punks, NeoRay, Nekohashi, and so on. I can even play good competition overseas, European players can get great connections to East Coast players like myself. I got to play ProfessorJones many times because of GGPO.
GGPO was the next step forward for ST and continues to be an excellent source of getting an ST fix for players of all levels.
^^ whats you ggpo name?
That wasn’t exactly what I had in mind when I posted the question, but your reply was gold :lol:
^^ Yeah our marketing department is huge. And we’re still hiring. After you were sold you won’t even noticed
DSP I can tell you but then I need to kill you (if you didn’t know already).
OSBR he meant exactly what you just said.