Mr.X
8
If it work on 6 out of 8, sounds like a BNB to me.
Yes.
Oerba
9
Doesn’t help that sometimes on the front page you have the writers calling combos using 2+ meters BnBs…
Yeah this is the only thing that really matters. People will learn what bnb means soon enough. The bigger problem is that unless I’m playing against a Parasoul (which a lot of combo videos seem to be using her because of her big, floaty hurt box)…my combos are dropping all over the place.
Dime
11
co signed. though i’d add that in general, unless its a punish situation, bnbs need to have safe on block starters, even better if the starter easily transitions into offense if blocked.
and another one is that atleast in the early days of a game, corner combos are the last thing to think about, it should be midscreen bnb’s then throw bnb’s then corner bnb’s then character specific bnb’s in that order.
in THIS game a true bnb will have these considerations as mandatory:
- works on crouching opponents.
- isnt burstable
- starter is safe on block (bnb is worthless if the starter is unsafe on block, outside of punish situations)
- corner isnt required
- works on the majority of the cast
- is hard to drop with proper training for most players
- meter use isnt excessive for the damage done (5 meters to do 12000 damage isnt a good damage to meter used, ratio. 3 meters is, but still isnt a bnb cause its much more situational)
a TRUE bnb will fulfill all or most of those requirements (the execution requirement is the most iffy and will differ from player to player)
extra credit is earned if the bnb leaves the attacker in a highly advantageous position, and if the bnb has lots of room for potential resets.
but those last 2 arent required, or actually are more character specific.
more people need to read this thread.
-dime
omg this. Although I have a few disagreements with this thread.
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I don’t agree with bnbs being easy, they only need to be consistent and preferably maximum damage. We should practice a x-frame link if it’s required to make a character excellent.
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Some characters are meter reliant. It should be fine to post bnbs with 1 meter as long as the super is a tack on for additional damage and not the heart of the combo.
(Sudden change of mind one look at SF3 and a bnb can just be a hit confirm into super if its worth the damage (Chun, Yun, Ken))
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Yes every bnb needs to hit crouching opponents but we won’t know what crouching hitboxes will look like until practice mode is patched. I found out what works and what doesn’t after I fucked up during a real fight.
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Characters like Valentine have uncountable character specific combos. Those players are gonna need to consider the differences between characters like Peacock and Double IMMEDIATELY.
Genow
13
So should we state Filia BnBs should start with Cr.LP§ > LK or what (LK gives sooo much time to hitconfirm)
Filia’s cr.lp > s.mp > cr.mk is a solid string for hit confirming
why use s.mp if cr. lk, cr.mk is safe and harder to block?
In a game where some characters pretty much live off of IAD jump ins, I don’t see why a combo that starts with one can’t be called a BnB. It will definitely be the combo a person will have to rely on the most. Although I do think a real BnB should work and be good even if the starter is omitted. And I believe it’s a good idea to list damage with and without such special starters. Since the first 3 hits are unscaled, it’s pretty important to know how these maximize damage.
I do agree with the rest. But in the end, who cares what people call their combos?
A bnb starts with a quick hit-confirm that can link from your jump-in for we call a combo. A jump-in isn’t guaranteed damage.
otori
18
I support this, it happens in every new fighting game.
I think the easier execution should be a determining factor as well. Optimization will come in time.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Skullgirls/Game_Elements/Life_and_Damage
1v1, 2v2, 3v1, 3v2. Use these and they give you the 100% damage multiplier. You use anything else, it modifies your damage. You’ve got plenty of options so you can practice solo, with assists, with DHC’s, and using snapbacks. Test your combo vs. various characters, look for blue/teal/whatever circles under your knockdowns (if they exist you can tech the knockdown making the combo invalid), make sure the combo counter stays up, etc.
Agreed. A BnB being “easy” is not a requirement of a BnB. The only one a BnB needs to be “easy” to is the person doing it. Even then, that’s not really an accurate way to explain it. In actuality, it need to be RELIABLE to the person doing it. I use “reliable” here to describe a balance of maximized damage and reliable execution. For example, if you can squeeze an extra heavy hit into a combo for a small amount of additional damage but it becomes 50% more likely to drop as a result, then that would make it unRELIABLE. But if omitting that hit makes it 50% more successful, then there you have a reliable combo worthy of being called a BnB.
Requiring meter also doesn’t eliminate a combo from being a BnB. It simply SHOULD build enough of it to be reliable to use repeatedly (enough to kill how ever many opponents you may be facing). You’d want a BnB to, at minimum, build what it uses. But even if doesn’t, “battery” characters exist for a reason. That’s not to say that it’s alright to call a combo using 5 meters a “BnB” just because you have 5 meters though. Using Akuma from Marvel for an example… to say that a BnB doesn’t use meter would be essentially saying he doesn’t have a BnB at all. Obviously, such a statement isn’t true. Again, that goes for any game.
There are also different types of BnBs. Requiring a corner doesn’t mean a combo isn’t a BnB. It just makes it a corner BnB. Damage optimization is part of what makes a BnB a BnB. More than likely, what works mid-screen is no longer fit to be called a BnB in a corner because typically you can get a significantly larger amount of damage in a corner, and therefore, wouldn’t use the same combo.
And finally, jump-ins in some situations are part of BnBs. I don’t even see how one could really argue against it… Magneto anyone? Specifically related to SG, Valentine fits the bill here imo.
On another personal note, a BnB also doesn’t have so much to do with landing your “fastest” normal as it does your most useful normal. Though sometimes they are one in the same, that isn’t always the case.
I think having a list of requirements for what BnBs should be kind of undermines the strength of this and all fighting games. I use links in my Parasoul combos, specifically Napalm loops. I can get them off consistently on every character in the game because I don’t actually have to leave the ground for the majority. It basically gives me 5000-7000 damage off of any lp or lk, and I’ll reiterate that it works on EVERY character in the game since it’s mostly on the ground and I don’t even have to take to the skies unless I’m feeling dangerous, because THAT is when the combo is most likely to run into problems because a lot of characters don’t respond well to an airborne Parasoul.
According to most of the people in this thread, my combo is too impractical to be called a BnB, yet for me it’s far more consistent than doing ground series > air series > ground series > ender. Simply put, if you can get your combo off consistently, then it’s a BnB. Any other problem you mentioned works itself out. If a combo requires a lot of meter, then it can’t be consistent, since you wouldn’t be able to do it without that meter. If you find that you can consistently land a jump-in, then sure, whatever, your combo’s a BnB. I mean, look at how often Filia players land j.mk and j.fp in a single match. They hit them more than probably any normal in her arsenal.
For me, a BnB combo is the most damaging combo that fulfills all of the ff criteria:
- Reliable -> this means it can’t have conditions like “works from 3/4 screen distance from corner”, “works only against character X”, “has different timing for each member of the cast”.
*Just from my first few days messing around with the game, it seems that each character will end up with a super-damaging corner BnB. If that is indeed the case, mid-screen BnB combos should be able to reliably transition into the corner combo if the opportunity presents itself.
- Each character has a different weight, but the basic categories seem to be that Peacock, Painwheel and Filia are light. Parasoul, Fortune and Valentine are mid. Cerebella and Double are heavy. I think it’s fine to have a BnB with slight variations for each weight class.
- Meter-efficient -> this means that the combo must be doable from a state of having one bar stocked. If the combo uses more than one meter, it must build those bars in the course of performing the combo.
- Skullgirls allows you to build meter by whiffing normals if you don’t have any meter stocked, so it is safe to assume players will have at least one meter most of the time.
- Doable -> BnB combos don’t need to be easy, but an easier combo is better than a difficult one if all other things are equal. No sense doing a combo with 3 1-frame links for 5000 damage if you have a combo that deals 5000 with just chains.
- It is usually fine to sacrifice minute amount of damage if it makes a combo significantly easier, and also if a difficult combo does significantly more damage than the easier ones then it is worth putting in the time to learn it.
So yeah, the most damaging combo that has the above covered should be the BnB.
zeech
24
As far as I can tell, there isnt a set-in-stone criteria for “BnB”. Sure, you guys can apply your own personal meanins to it if you want.
As far as I can tell, “BnB” just means the combos that people who are good all end up using, all the time. Of course, they end up doing so because of the various reasons listed here, (meter efficient, optimal damage, stable and rarely drops, works on most characters, etc.) but there may be other reasons why good players gravitate towards certain combos (eg. oki potential, corner carry, etc.). There might even be “BnB” combos that occur off rare events like a counter-hit, but are called “BnB” because it’s the standard combo to use after a counter hit.
So yeah, BnB = combos you should learn and use a lot, because they are good for various reasons.
As for “starting from a jump attack”, I’d think that people include that in the combo to indicate that you can do it after a jump in if you wanted.
- In some games, there are ground combos that won’t work after certain jump ins, so you can’t assume that you can tack a jump in before any combo.
- Are there any combos in SG that REQUIRE a jump-in attack for the ground component to work?
When did BnB’s start being so…complex? I thought it was just a character’s go 2 combo or whatever optimized the most damage for minimal effort.
Pertho
26
Once a game gets to a crazy high level, the demands of playing at a crazy high level will make it so the BnB changes. For example Magneto in MvC2 had 3 different bread and butters depending on the situation: ROM, 5 fierce and then the most basic magic series xx hyper grav xx magnetic tempest. You started with magic series xx hyper grav xx tempest and hten moved on to 5 fierce and ROM.
Either way the game is less than a week old and people are calling any retarded thing a BnB. This is a disservice to the community. I already found the most basic thing with Valentine that will work on everybody; I’m trying to find one with Filia and then I’ll move on to some other stuff. After I have those downs I’ll try to ramp up the complexity for more damage and eventually my BnB will evolve.
BnB from a jumping…jesus christ.
Yea the trick here is to NEVER pay attention to the front page.
