New players hurting SF?

[MKKhanzo]

Um…ok. I guess ST was clearly just like riding a stick shift car on a straight open lane. Tough to figure out at first if you’ve never done it but after that there’s nothing else to it. Yup.

SFIV does have its technicalities to it but it’s more so on a mind game kind thing. In some ways the technicalities in SFIV are watered down compared to older games. Like how putting offense on your opponent on wake up is reduced to cross ups or option selects to cover yourself for how easy it is for someone to slip an invincible move out on wake up. Lack of stun on block strings also keep people from getting creative with strings and forces them to stick to jabs or risk getting slammed by invincible shit. Things like focus attack and FADC do add new dimensions to the fight that weren’t normally in older SF games but it’s definitely not all for a better game on a technical standpoint either. It’s just all put together to create a SF game that best appeases the scene as a whole. New players get to do free ass shit with easy ass commands and lenient reversal systems and veteran players still have access to footsies and new tools like focus attacks and FADC to turn things around.

You know SFIV is still going somewhat in the right direction though technically if they still complain about the game being hard to play. If the veteran players ever came to a consensus that the game is too easy to play then SF as a competitive game will have failed since it will have lost everything that made SF interesting and stand out from joe shmoe everyone gets their turn video game that’s the big thing now these days. SFIV just gives newer and scrub players just enough incentive to win so that they keep playing even though they are clearly mindset wise leagues under more veteran players.

This good man speaks the truth. That and gave me back DEEP jumping atacks. Im tired of Rog doing early J RH then still able to combo my ass…
=(

[Dpendleton]

Cry Moar.

Who is crying?

[Shervin]

Someone give this man a cookie. :rock:

And a tampon.

[Artayes]

It was pretty funny to see 3rd Strike just underneath it one month.

yes, glad it was just one month, but anytime I think of 3S being under that piece of shit garbage makes me ill.

and anyone who thinks SF IV has anywhere near the complexity of 3S needs to go die in a corner somewhere because you are basically worthless.

[Cynk22]

This thread is one of the ugliest messes I have seen in a long time.

[vertoxz]

And a tampon.

…Why? I checked your mums drawer she has plenty of 'em.

:yawn:

…I had to.

[shoultzula]

Man why do folks think the new people had input on SF4(correct me if I am wrong) SSF4 possibly but vanilla nope. They loketested this game in Japan and the arcades right? So those guys should be held accountable and not so called new players.

you have to understand the developmental process I’ve already stated. Capcom doesn’t let the community in WHEN the game is being developed from scratch. Like when they consider engine mechanics, what types of SF elements should we put in it. Those types of things we have no power over. Its only till a loke test till players have a say in the game and by that time its to late. By the time they loke tested sf4, it had ultras, slow ass gameplay, shortcut inputs, huge reversals windows with auto correct. Bascially, capcom does the damage before SRK.com even has a shot to tell them its crap.

So, if they make the game before anyone has a good say in it, capcom is obviously pulling information from somewhere. They didn’t make the game scrub friendly because pro’s were asking for that. They made the game scrub friendly to draw in other types of players, its even stated by Ono but I just paraphrased what he said. Well, where could a SF programmer\developer go to learn to pull in newer players? more than likely the internet. I also find it extremely ironic that the things newer players complain about the most were all dealt with in sf4 and thats not by coincidence. By surfing websites like srk.com along with other websites over the net, they can gain perspective on how to make the game easier by reading posts of why players hate SF.

---

justbemadness, I read your entire your post. Marvel early on was about those dumbass doom\BH shit that arturo was using @ b5, very gay teams. However, even though the game was like this early on, magneto was in the game as he is now. No one tapped into his power just yet. I see nothing like this in sf4 @ all. I see no potential for the game to switch directions like mvc2 has.

[HARD_BREAD]

Play more Vampire Savior…and 3s :razz:

[XMetal]

shoultz, i wasn’t saying sf4 is like mvc2 at all in that sense, i just meant the community evolves the way games evolve and there is a “gayness phase” or more than one. sf4 is just part of that now. i didn’t mean to compare mvc2 and sf4, i was comparing it to the the community itself. sorry if i wasn’t clear.

[experiMILK]

i demand this first game’s first iteration to give us the same satisfaction of all these other games with multiple revisions and years of time invested into discovering new things!

[Tech_Romancer]

i demand this first game’s first iteration to give us the same satisfaction of all these other games with multiple revisions and years of time invested into discovering new things!

Yeah it should, seeing as the company that made all those other games and multiple revisions made this same game.

So they really should have learned better after over 20 years of experience. Kinda dumb to still be going through this shit after all those years. If it was another company, building another type of FG system under a different franchise than maybe it would be understandable.

[shoultzula]

shoultz, i wasn’t saying sf4 is like mvc2 at all in that sense, i just meant the community evolves the way games evolve and there is a “gayness phase” or more than one. sf4 is just part of that now. i didn’t mean to compare mvc2 and sf4, i was comparing it to the the community itself. sorry if i wasn’t clear.

ahhh ok

lets get dat marvel in!

[experiMILK]

if they were all the same game, with the same production staff behind each one, releasing in the same environment, that might make a little more sense to me. just because it’s the same COMPANY, doesn’t mean it’s the same people behind the game.

[Artayes]

if they were all the same game, with the same production staff behind each one, releasing in the same environment, that might make a little more sense to me. just because it’s the same COMPANY, doesn’t mean it’s the same people behind the game.

Its not the same people for the most part, it could not be. I understand most of the budget for SF IV went into advertising, and then with time restraints and a small budget the game will probably suck. But I don’t think SF IV sucks just because it looks like they had a small budget, but because the game is so boring and noob-friendly that it is just worthless to me to even bother with it anymore, especially since 3S takes like 100s of years to master and i can play that anytime on GGPO with other great players.

[Combos_On_Demand]

To say street fighter isn’t based on its fans is a terrible comment. Capcom has been pumping out SF games for over 20 years now. They listen to what we have to say about their games and what could be improved. The developers over @ capcom unity asked the mvc2 players to figure out all their bugs on their current version for the x360\ps3. They listened to us but us is kinda general, who should us consist of?

This is where the new players get into the picture. Everyone has an opinion about the balance of games, normal sets, hit boxes, option selects etc… However, the newer players out weigh the players with the most knowledge. Whenever I see someone post about execution being too hard or the game needs to be slower or help scrubs MORE, I cringe. Developers\programmers read these posts and then they may bring it up in meeting. 99% of them have probably never been in a tournament scene and they don’t know any better. Its the blind leading the blind.

" well, I was surfing the net today and I saw a bunch of people on srk.com talking about how SF is kinda hard to play. What if we lowered the bar to allow more people to compete? would that result in a product that sells better?"

Its not a big secret that sf4 was purposely watered down AND sold really well.

Prior to the internet being a staple in every home, capcom was just sorta pumping out games and letting the players in the scene give feed back. To be in the scene meant you were in the arcade playing and those were the players being asked questions. It also meant that some scrub who can barely play would never get his voice heard which should be the case. With the internet taking the world by storm, more and more companies are using this to reach EVERY consumer to gain feedback. So that scrub who couldn’t play now has a chance to voice his opinion which should of never been heard in the first place.

Around this time, the games were ALL extremely technical. ST, A2\A3, VS, XvSF I can’t help but think that the internet has gave way to MUCH easier games because of the feed back from newer players.

**are newer players influencing the scene in a bad way? **

newer players don’t have the knowledge that some like valle\choi\watts have but yet IMO, newer players still have a voice. I’m not new school but not old school either. I would prefer it if my voice was silenced if the OG’s would voice more. They may not be 100% right on what they say but their posts will be 10000x more beneficial to developers\programmers IMO. More so than some random scrub complaining about something that doesn’t even matter. You have so many people here who complain about character design in sf4 when there are MUCH bigger problems to be addressed.

I pretty much agree. When I first read the title, I thought it was going to be an ignorant rant, but I actually agree with you on the suggestions thing. For example, the NBA 2K series had a suggestion thread over at their forums, and I had been a fan of the franchise for years and thought that the franchise had gotten pretty watered down and casual. When I read most of the suggestion thread it was just a bunch of kids complaining about headbands and asking for new game modes. I just want some FREAKIN’ defense in the game! The internet has given the casual players a place to put their input into the game, which is good for business, but bad for the overall quality of the game.

The bottom line is, it’s a great thing that new players are getting into Street Fighter IV. But when the casual players ask for simplified mechanics instead of putting in some actual time to get better and understand the game, it has a severe impact on the quality of this otherwise legendary franchise.

[Tech_Romancer]

if they were all the same game, with the same production staff behind each one, releasing in the same environment, that might make a little more sense to me. just because it’s the same COMPANY, doesn’t mean it’s the same people behind the game.

But the source codes, write-ups, info, production stuff is still there available (unless you’re SNK, apparently) to study for future reference. Not to mention the scenes that built up for those titles over the years and what happened with each title’s respective meta-game.

Also the most obvious point is that Ono pretty blatantly said its a throw-back of sorts to SFII and older games. So if you’re not even inventing new ideas (there’s not), trying to differentiate it in anyway (its not) and running off nostalgia (it is) than there’s absolutely no excuse for that. Like I said, if it were say the first fully 3D SF game with movement and Sidesteping, other kind of mechanics that no-one has really attempted with the series than it would be understandable.

[Artayes]

if they were all the same game, with the same production staff behind each one, releasing in the same environment, that might make a little more sense to me. just because it’s the same COMPANY, doesn’t mean it’s the same people behind the game.

Its not the same people for the most part, it could not be. I understand most of the budget for SF IV went into advertising, and then with time restraints and a small budget the game will probably suck. But I don’t think SF IV sucks just because it looks like they had a small budget, but because the game is so boring and noob-friendly that it is just worthless to me to even bother with it anymore, especially since 3S takes like 100s of years to master and i can play that anytime on GGPO with other great players.

[Artayes]

if they were all the same game, with the same production staff behind each one, releasing in the same environment, that might make a little more sense to me. just because it’s the same COMPANY, doesn’t mean it’s the same people behind the game.

Its not the same people for the most part, it could not be. I understand most of the budget for SF IV went into advertising, and then with time restraints and a small budget the game will probably suck. But I don’t think SF IV sucks just because it looks like they had a small budget, but because the game is so boring and noob-friendly that it is just worthless to me to even bother with it anymore, especially since 3S takes like 100s of years to master and i can play that anytime on GGPO with other great players.

[El_Chupa_Negro]

I agree with everyone saying Capcom forgot about us when it came to this game. Honestly though the fighting game community was the last group to be thought of when they where making this game . The demographics were people who played sf2 along time ago and who had no clue of there every being an sf3, the next demographic was casuals people who probably wouldn’t practice , or attempt to play this game competitively beyond a few friends the last demographic was us vets who have probably played the majority of capcom titles and who have strong bond to the company the reason why we weren’t heavily targeted was because they knew for sure we were going to buy the game regardless.

Now the problems they had was trying to figure out how to bring in casuals easiest way bring in a zero fail special moves which are easy to land and all you needed was timing. Add that with an ultra that you can use when your dying you never have to out think your buddy who probably will fall for it every damn time since he doesn’t pay attention to timing.

The needed to get the older kids back so they added in the whole cast of sf2 turbo and threw in some more obscure characters to enlarge the cast so people have options ,

Now to get us back they gave us the focus attack the closet thing we had to parrying and they added in a few hard to use characters they gave us some deep characters

Now to get us

[experiMILK]

how hard is it to master activate genei jin?