New matchup thread being made....rejoice!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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This is what i’ve learned playing Ryu and this is just general stuff, great ryus will always be great. (not very concise forgive the length) Please correct my mistakes or misconceptions i’m still very new.

Ryu

Punish jumpins with AA or cr.MK into FB or m.tatsu/ex tatsu or just straight up cr.HP it; practice in training mode to get the timing down, you need to be quite early with the cr.HP if your gonna be late or on wakeup then tp,dp or block & tech if you know a throw is coming, better to eat a throw then a combo as we have low hp.
If you AA a jumpin with a DP early you might be able to FB too, or if you are down with it super/ultra a jumpin if you can get the timing right but its hard.

If you block a tatsu early you would do best to TP away as you are going to get thrown or dp’d or worse. Better to s.HP/c.HP the tatsu when you see it thrown or MP but HP seems more reliable but the better ryu’s don’t seem to use it often but you might be able to sucker them into throwing it out and then punish them if they throw it out from long range. Careful of the short or medium tatsu to throw that some try.

Once ryu has his ultra/super you may very well have to be 10x more careful of him dp’ing into them, don’t throw any fb’s unless they are going to be safe or from enough range that he can’t ultra to dodge the FB and hit you while you recover. FB from far away unless you want to eat the ultra. Waste a bar to EX tatsu if you are jumping back and he ultra/supers as it will keep you in the air for a while and hopefully the ultra will fly under or don’t if you are sure you will recover depending on your position in the jump.

Learn the mid range to fb zone him, be happy with any chip damage you can get, every cr.mk into fb’s/m.tatsu’s are gonna count.

Your jumping normals are quite trashing compared to ryu’s he will nearly always win in the air as he has so many more active frames and its rare to beat him in the air, its just not the way to get in at him imo. His j.HK is to be feared for its very very long range and active frames winning most air battles. You are better off AA’ing a few then he will give up trying to jumpin usually.

Remember you have Red fb use it wisely to build a little meter but 2 in a row and ryu may jump in at you, maybe 2 light red fb’s and on the 2nd jumpin AA but the timing doesn’t feel in your favour, play about with it and see your success.

When/if you crossup when ryu has super/ultra if he block be prepared to eat it as i’ve crossup.MK had it blocked and ate a dp and combo to ultra or super. Maybe its best to make sure its timed just right but be alert to the danger.

I prefer to save meter for ex air.fb’s to get in or to drop on him as he wakeups followed by more ground fbs to get in any/all chip dmg as possible. But if you are proficent demon-flip in on fb’s and see what you can do to get in your combos before he gets that ultra/super rdy. The better you do the more explosive dmg you’ll be under the threat of taking that ultra so play it safe when you have to but keep an even pressure other wise if ryu gets into a groove you’ll get chipped away.

Some ryu’s have a definate game plan of pressure combinations one after the other which can crush you really quickly,(i’ve lost in 9seconds before) so maybe a jump tatsu over, a few TP’s to change the pace of the round can unsettle these guys and let you take control and zone as you should win any zoning with Red fb :slight_smile: So much recovery on hp.Red.fb(3-hit one) so don’t do it if ryu is med screen as his jumpin.HK has such range he could hit you down in its long recovery. Maybe throw in a Focus to eat a jumpin and combo if you are proficent with the timing.

The best thing I can suggest to get a handle on this matchup is to play it a lot or play as some ryu but don’t use his ultra to give yourself a feel for how he gets in. And his blockstrings. You’ll learn his strings and start to take a lot of chip damage so punishing big is of even more importance as his moves do a lot of dmg quickly.

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Nice info guys, keep it coming. Also please kinda check through the OP occasionally, as we continue to grow I’m sure some tactics will become out of date, new techniques change matchups, incorrect info in the OP, even typos n such.

Thanks, and like I said, just keep em rollin on in.

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i’ll take your advice unbound and just teleport away from ryu the whole match hoping to win off maybe having lucked out and hit him with a fireball :slight_smile: lol.

for ryu feel free to EX tatsu in mid-air to get some more distance between the two of you.

for this match-up you REALLY want to learn your FB FADC combos WELL. The difference between being able to turn a c.mk, FB into a 300+ damage combo if it actually hits is HUGE. If you are having too hard of a time getting your FADC after hit confirming either the c.mk or the fireball then you can always opt for c.mk EX tatsu. You lose out on 100 damage or more with this but hey… its safe if its blocked…gives you some room to move with EVEN if blocked… and the chip is between 10-30 which is okay. Its okay to play a chip damage war with ryu if you want… your about even in such a match.

talkin of chip… the more you can get ryu on his back and get a chip damage hit on him the better off you are. Not only that… but as long as you stand out of shoryu range he doesn’t even have a chance to ultra/super you if you HP shaku him… all he can do is stand and block it like the bitch he is :slight_smile: Thats 36 damage added to whatever you did to knock him on his ass in the first place.

c.HP destroys ANY hurricane kick… you can seriously just mash it the moment you see the move start up without worry about getting hit. If its done from rather far away just Shoryu it for a free 280 damage from a lp DP FADC HP shaku or 190 for a simple HP DP…your choice. Personally I don’t have an issue using up meter when i have a chance to add 100+ damage against ryu cuz sometimes damage can be hard t ocome by while meter builds up fast in fb wars. and make sure your carefully FA a few fireballs here or there to help build up that ever so useful revenge meter. Helps to stop him from spamming out lp DP as often if you have an Ultra at your disposal.

DO NOT try to tick throw him very often. his lp DP into ultra/super/ex fireball are a PAIN IN THE ASS.

in short… if you haven’t practiced getting every ounce out of a hit connecting… against ryu is a great time to learn…lol. You really need to make sure you finish your sir FB into HK combos and neutral jump j.mk into FADC fireball combos.

random tidbit to tantelize your FA tastebuds. IF you can SMELL… just SMELL a DP… non-reversal… you can FA ALL of his DP varieties except EX DP (and you don’t see that being used except in weird situations really so I wouldn’t even worry about it. HE isn’t ken or akuma where he hits multiple times during his punches… so you can FA them and get free combos for your trouble… sure you can block them… but a lot of the time people will DP your FA where they normally wouldn’t have done so to a blocking opponent (would have grappled yo ass…). Not necessarily recommending to throw it out a lot… but its always a little option for you.

Also… take note from momochi and learn to buffer your demon every time you do something like sweep so you can punish someone for tryin to FA your sweeps :slight_smile: lol.

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i guess the secret to beating ryu is to play like Ryu

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As far as the lag tatsu that ryus/kens like to take advantage of… This may not work every time but it hasn’t failed me once, block high until the last hit, where you crouch block and follow with the DP. For whatever reason I’ve never been thrown or DPd or even blocked or traded hits when doing this rather than trying a standing DP or block/tech in the standard online lag. Oh and all 3 hits connect every time as well.

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Hey guys. I am a decent Chun player and am picking up Akuma. I was just checking the matchup thread and noticed that there wasn’t any information for the Chun section.

First of all, this thread has awesome orginaztion! Looks great!

Here are a few tips that I, as a Chun player, struggle with against a Gouki.

If a Gouki can keep me at a distance I seem to lose more often than win. The attack has to be from the air. A barrage of ground fireballs will be eaten by FA’s and eventually will get a Hassan Shu into our BnB.

Most Chun players that I know are highly reactive so we will almost always, if we have revenge meter, ultra a ground fireball.

SRK’s can be punished with super/ultra, so be sure you land it if you use it.

Demon flip into downward kick (forgot the name of the variation) is a nice bait for Chuns anti air, which beats it out (not positive but thats how I remember it)

I have some more to add and will come back later. Feel free to add me to PSN Absoiut_Virtue (yes that is supposed to be an “i” in there)

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What should I do about the honda matchup? I played a really good one last night and he never did anything but sit and wait. If I tried to fireball him from afar he’d just dodge them, but he wasn’t taking the bait at all. I tried to close ground and poke him a little bit, but his standing jab as well as that hand chop thing he does has SO much range, I lose the poke wars rather easily. If I jumped in, I ate a headbutt. Should I be playing more defensive?

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From what I can tell from online play, most average-level Honda players use either two strategies:

-Turtle and randomly punish/interrupt with Headbutt.
-Mixup with Splash/Slap/Ochio.

Assuming the Honday you fought against was a turtle, there’s lots of things you can do to get around that. Crossups work well for me, as well as tick-throws. Upon every knockdown, get chip damage with the red fireball (unless he’s got Ultra, then back the fuck off). Avoid throwing out air fireballs as much as possible and, when you do, don’t throw them out from the top of your jump. Wait until you fall a bit before throwing it.

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against honda there are a few things… but I’m sad to say this … of ALL the match-ups in the game right now… is my worst. Just becasue he does 1/3 of your bar so easily… I’ve played some actually decent hondas though… along with the usual “I wanna be blanka!!” scrub tier ones…heh.

but anyway… You shouldn’t be completely losing a poke war… especially against a turtle honda.

few things…

  1. watch out for your own block strings… while he isn’t geif retarded his command throw can be beastly if used correctly. But unlike against geif… DO NOT jump backward if you are afraid of dropping a block string or missing a link… that is headbutt bait. Instead… PPP teleport to the OPPOSITE side of the honda… this way he loses his charge and can’t therefore punish you running away.

  2. fireballs should be ground or lp air. nothing else really IMO. And don’t bother with your HP shaku (although lp shaku can be of some use as it leads the opponent to jump in less safe a lot of the time expecting there to be more frames lost on recovery.

  1. do not grapple him on wake up… simply make sure you are EVER SO SLIGHTLY outside of his ass pound move (i’d call it that even if I KNEW the name of it…) and throw HP red FB. This way either he eats the FB…eats the chip damage…or puts himself RIGHT in front of you for a trip or a combo. If you are VERY close to him… you can try and cross him up… but a lot of the time at this range his headbutt will come out the correct way (towards you) even though he was charging for hitting you in the opposite direction…yea…the input system for SF4 is weird…

  2. Thats not to say don’t cross… I just don’t necessarily say to abuse it on WAKE as much as you may like… On the reverse of this… every blocked s.HK I feel needs you to go for a cross if at all possible. Just make sure you aren’t MISSING the cross…lol…or he gets a free throw or headbutt (usually headbutt…lol).

  3. I also agree with king zeal’s use of tick throws. Throws on wake = fail. Tick throws = bueno.

  4. Zeal already mentioned the “when not to” for shaku on wake… its pretty much just like abel or chun’s…

  5. punish his headbutts with super if you have it. Does ultra hit?? You should check… i don’t remember. last time I tried he jumped it barely but I might have just been late or something.

  6. Just because he doesn’t LOOK like he should be hitting you low … doesn’t mean he won’t be. MAke sure to block low as he can combo his headbutt off a low poke.

  7. just… in general…try not to backwards jump in this match.

anyway… yes… you should be zoning him better. different speeds of ground fireballs to make him have to think more about when he jumps over them. Ground ones keep him from going and headbutting you…NO AIR FB ALLOWED!!! IF you come to a charging honda he WILL hurt you… you need to force him to stop charging and come to you. Which luckily isn’t hard since he doesn’t have any way of going through your fb’s unlike rog and blanka. You almost ALWAYS have time to throw a fireball and hit him before he gets to you… EX is the only thing to worry about on this as its a good bit faster start-up.

Ohh… and if you see him jump up for his uber booty ballistic EX scary butt slam… FA it and combo… its even safer than back dashing and sweeping… the move has some serious issues if you don’t try and just block it or AA it(if you didn’t get the hint… don’t try and block the booty bomb… ALWAYS either back dash (twice if you are feeling scared of his ass’s might) or FA.

if YOU want to try and close the distance… try demon flip and using HK right after throwing a lp fireball. I think I like lp fb the best in this match-up actually. Except on wake…that always will go to shaku. But for the most part you shouldn’t even have to worry much… just he has to come to you (until you get hit and have to make up for not having the lead… which leads me to say… don’t lose the lead early as it makes the match a good little bit harder even if its just like one headbutt landing to start the match.

sorry I can’t be of more help than ^^ that.

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I just caught a good honda with my ultra after a deep blocked hand slap, I know he couldn’t get out of it but I don’t the specifics of which strength he was using. Don’t know if it’s in the demon thread but it was huge in my match.

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nah dude that’ll do me just fine. thanks for the tips.

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man im having some serious issues with bison. anybody got some good tips against this guy.

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Shut Bison’s air game down. If he tries for headstomp, backdash and punish. I normally just teleport away from the flying fist move.

My Akuma is not as strong as Chun li but vertical jumping HK is very effective, I can assume a vertical jump MK could help as well.

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post #97 on page 4 of this thread I talk about bison. You can read that for some help against him. I don’t want to clutter by a re-post of something already in the thread.

someone should write some anti-akuma stuff… FOR akuma… lol…seriously though.

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Is there any better way to approach the cammy matchup than just blocking spiral arrows and AAing jump ins? The matchup seems predominantly a guessing game whether she’ll hooligan/jump in/spiral arrow mid range, and even from there you have the issue of her cannon spiking all of my links online. Any tips on how I can get the upper edge on this matchup?

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well… she KILLS jump-ins and cross-ups because her SRK move fuckin hits straight up forwards and the hitbox lasts until she starts to fall DOWNWARDS o.O Sadly this leaves you with a very minimal use of demon flips and cross-ups. And means you pretty much have to stand back and chip her on wake unless your in the mood to have a huge chance of getting AA’ed. Once she has ultra you pretty much lose all oki stuff against her -.- lol. Which means its hard to keep on pressure. Meaning it pretty much FORCES the game to be a defensive battle. You and rush her for a while if you watch when you cross though…especially online…but its still risky.

I mean… I guess remember the ducking blocks everything out of hooligan… so that destroys her mix-ups off that (yea… don’t jump backwards…her throw can grab you mid-air :frowning:

But FA is your FRIEND here. just make sure you don’t use it TOO much. And don’t use air fbs. her only armor break move is her spinning fist… and that thing is so slow you can back dash and block pretty much on reaction if you are watching carefully. And if its used randomly at all …its a free neutral jump combo for you. This match-up is probably akumas only bad match-up if you were to say he has any. Her moves are built around killing mobility and mobility is akumas biggest strength. AT mid range FA and if the person spikes at you… you get a free combo. IF they don’t … back dash… then back dash again or neutral jump is my sugguestion… a lot of the time they will be thinking to spiral you of some sort the moment you had let go of teh focus. Sometimes the double back dash works… othertimes not… but its always an option.

When I play a decent one it usually ends up the whole match me holding an FA and backdashing and her dashing forward and waiting and then doing her little back flip, using hooligan, or using a spiral. PArt of what the match-up is simply getting her to use the wrong counter to what you are doing :frowning: I know… not fun…lol.

Online though I KNOW you’ll get demon flip grabs more… and if you get a corner… use an air fb and then see what you should do from there (first time maybe just neutral jump? Or sit and block and hope for an “Attempted” aa theat ends up letting you get a free combo.

This match is VERY much a PLAYER to PLAYER match kinda how I see geif as a player to player match… only in the reverse. In a geif match you are jumping away and the geif has to guess how you are gonna teleport/hk/sweep/air fb and counter correctly. In THIS match its you guessing what she is gonna do… or you trying to get her to do something and her trying to guess which move you are NOT ready for…lol.

i guess my best help right now is just … FA…backdashes…and duck when she hooligans. and don’t air- fb much at all…

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You should be able to keep Cammy out. Watch out for EX Hooligan, though. That shit is mad fast. You should try FA Cannon Strike pressure, because her other pressure options are extremely unsafe. Other than c.lp, c.lk guard strings. Watch out for tick throw shenenigans, she cant really get big damage if she can’t hit you. Just bait Cammy into huge risks by playing patient. She has to come to you. You don’t have to come to her. Always, ALWAYS teleport out if you do get knocked down. trying to block TK + EX TK Cannon strike pressure is annoying.

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just like to add to watch out when you are teleporting and she has ultra because it has mad range and can punish your teleport on reaction without much trouble.

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Fuerte is annoying but easy. I like to think of him as a lesser zangief mixed with a lesser vega.

I’ve found s.HK and HK Tatsus to work wonders on this guy. not to mention ultras come easy with all varieties of elf. the jumping, and the running kinds.

Honestly just stay on top of him.and don’t let him breathe… if he tried to get you into that butt slam loop, just teleport… tatsu’s, HP RFPs on wake up, and cross ups can kill that mexican quicker than swine flu.

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This isn’t a matchup specific question, but I figure that it is relevant to pretty much all matchups.
When using an SRK as AA, which SRK motion is better for doing it out of a crouching position? I find that I’m trading SRK’s WAY too often, and I want to more consistently do the SRK when I have invincibility on the ground.