Hey, How can we punish Bison’s Knee press?
If it’s a LK scissor kick, then you can’t; even frames on block. If it’s from a distance, you can uppercut it.
Sick Demon Setup For Anybody (Very useful)!!!
I posted this in the garanteed Demon thread but was told to post it here
Here’s a Garanteed Demon for everybody, kinda basic tho but VERY EFFECTIVE:
This is possibly Akumas best Demon setup…
At a distance, use 1 hit Red Fireball or ex red fireball(must be 1 hit or ex for fast recovery). 95% of the people I played jump foward either because they think I threw 3 hit red fireball so they will think they can jump foward and punish me, or just to avoid chip damage(its just common reaction). When you throw red fireball (1 hit) mash demon as they jump foward and they will land right on it. Timing is a bit tricky tho but if timed right an ultra demon is garanteed.
*A reason to throw an ex red ball to give them more incentive to jump foward it has the fast recovery of a 1 hit red ball with 3 hits and I think its slightly stronger.
I personally think the main reason for a ex red ball is for baiting the opponent to jump into a demon,It’s a bait tactic.
I suggest practicing in training first. That way you dont mess up the input and make it obvious in a match. Good luck.
is it just me or is gouken a straight ***!..am i playing him wrong or is he overpowered?..HELP MEEEE
hello
hello
well… for gouken… you just have to know the match-up or you’ll get killed. IF your used to doing jump ins a lot you have to think about it a little differently than you might usually because his parry is demonic if used well. I mean… if akuma had that parry he WOULD be fucking broken…lol. But gouken?? naah.
First off dont’ fireball at anything but full screen away unless to hit him as chip while they stand up or at rather close range for chip etc etc. air hado is sometimes useable… but grounded FB are pretty much completely avoided here. its too easy for him to punish your FB with his palm and a good gouki will punish you with EX palm for pretty much near half your health without much issue o.O. That being said, you need to keep him away from you. I also like akuma’s demon flip grab in this match-up when wanting to get close because i don’t like having to mix up ACTUALLY jumping in and jumping into getting parried. But distance is your friend once you get the lead. Forcing him to have to come to you is key. Gouken can turtle akuma way too easily with his fireball mix-up and easy distanced FB punish. That being said, use your red FB at full range because he can’t punish you for using it and it will force him to move. Cross-ups work decently against him as well with his lack on non-super/ultra anti-air type moves other than his fireball (which is a rather weak AA…). And if you ever ever ever get into the corner… MAKE SURE to teleport or air tatsu out because Gouken is a beast in the corner.
An aside is that this match-up will both make you FEAR throws as well as learn how to tech them better…lol. Its no-fun having a half health advantage and then getting tick thrown for the lose.
Gouken is kinda a weird version of Geif in a way. He is based on the idea of only needing to hit your opponent about 3 or 4 times to get the win, but he has a hard time getting those hits because he doesn’t have much in the way of pokes (hell…his c.mk isn’t even a low…lol). So your defense and patience is going to be tested here. And don’t teleport really against him. He can punish you with palm on reaction from pretty much any range… Feel free to do so against a cross up… but other than that I don’t recommend it.
and are we talking GOOD gouken or average scrub goukens here? there is a HUGE HUGE difference. Scrub gouken abuses demon flip slide …sigh… so you can almost 100% of the time just focus every time you see what you think is a demon flip because it will 99.9% of the time be a kick of a slide…they don’t like having to time a throw I guess…lol.
That being said…I keep meaning to pick up gouken once I feel even more comfy with my akuma.
P.S- watch out for using your HK too much against a good gouken … you’ll get punished for it with parry.
What do you mean by Gouken’s “parry”? I thought you couldn’t parry in SFIV? Do you mean his Focus Attack absorbing?
Wouldn’t he get hit by the double-hitting standing HK, or is a good Gouken quick enough to release his FA in time to crumple you with a counter?
Gouken has counters that work a little like FAs but way faster. He has a high, a low, and an air counter, right?
if the Gouken gets parry happy against crossups, start mixing empty jumps into lows, that should discourage parries quickly enough.
I’m confused… maybe I’ve just never played a decent Gouken so I’ve never seen this… But I don’t see anything in his move list that indicates a parry either. Is it just his Focus Attack?
The Gouken’s I always seem to get are the ones that will Demon Flip a bunch of times right into your focus attack and when that fails they sit back trying to win a fireball war, or else just spam Gouken’s Rush Punch right into punishment because they assume Akuma is just going to throw fireballs and nothing else.
I think something that would add to this thread a lot would be a “Punishment” section for each character so it’s easier to know what can and can’t be punished.
For instance, list good punishments for each common mistake that another character might make against you… such as: (I don’t know if this example is exactly right)
Cammy
Punishment:
Blocked Spiral Arrow: cHP -> LK Tatsu -> FP.SRK
Blocked Cannon Drill: LK Tatsu -> FP SRK
Balrog
Punishment:
Blocked Rush Punch (High): ???
Blocked TAP: ???
Whiffed Head Butt: ???
– I’ve been punishing a lot of stuff wrong or trying to punish on things that don’t give me a frame advantage from which to punish… It would be really helpful to me to have a match-up specific list of very common mistakes and how Akuma should best punish them. I realize that there isn’t always a “best” punishment, but usually there is something you can do that guarantees a combo every time if you execute it whereas punishing with a different move is much less ideal in that it is more difficult to execute, does less damage, is less safe, or a combination of those 3.
No, Gouken has a counter and a Focus Attack. It’s a reverse DP motion. punch does high and air attack, kick does low attacks and EX does both
Ahh I see it now. I don’t think anyone has ever used that on me… I don’t even know what it looks like.
When used properly it’s beast, but you can use it against him just the same. A lot of Gouken’s will parry high when you jump in so like people have said, start mixing up empty jumps or demon flip grab/punch. And yes it parries cross ups too so be careful with those.
When throwing fireballs just be sure to stay in the range that if he palms through one you can SRK him on reaction. Safest option is to use LP SRK because if done too early FP will just get the one hit, you’ll fly in the air, and he’ll back throw > ultra you FTL. Against his demon flip, use FA all day until he shows he’s going to use the grab. But yeah, the most important thing against Gouken if he does get close to you is throw tech or else you’re finished. Even without ultra, back throw > fierce/ex hurricane kick is 200+ damage so make sure you can tech throws.
Ahh, I probably never see it because I almost never, ever jump at my opponent unless I’m safely jumping behind an air fireball.
That leads me to a question about his parry actually. I had a Gouken in the corner yesterday and threw an air fireball and jumped in behind it. He did his parry and it seemed to absorb the fireball and then also rape my jump in kick. It lost me the match too haha, uncool. I guess I’ll have to test this in training mode I suppose to see exactly how that works.
Is his parry thing similar to the “Hyper armor” like when Zangief or Balrog do a special EX move that gives them FA absorb ability?
Two hits or a reversal is supposed to armor break that just like an FA, right?
Yes armor break moves will beat it just like FA. However, where as against FA Akuma’s standing HK will pretty much beat it every time, if Gouken parries your standing HK you eat it every time since there’s no letting go of buttons and waiting a second for the move to come out. So 2 hit moves that aren’t armor break lose to Gouken’s parry.
For my specific situation, I just tested that as well. It seems my jump in was too close behind the fireball. I was able to parry the fireball and then catch Akuma on his jump with the tail end of the parry before the MK even came out. Crazy.
a less contrived way of saying it is simply that Gouken’s parry cannot be tapped out of like a FA can. It activates after the first hit. Only actual armor break moves will be able to go through it. And just so you know… akumas only armor break i believe is his fist from demon flip (non-reversal of course). Just play gouken a little different. such…as…NOT following your fireballs with a jump-in at all… unless you time it way late or something and get the perfect FB distance to allow a jumpin right AFTER he parries… lol… in other words just don’t bother too much with it. But like someone earlier said, if they are parry HAPPY … you can do a jump in and just not attack at all and then just throw him (this is the same reason I said you can almost demon flip throw him for free).
personally I mash out his parry in the middle of opponents block strings sometimes hoping for a dropped link…so remember that…especially with akuma’s lack of armor breaks.
Couldn’t you EX dp Gouken if he’s counter fishing? EX dp is completely invincible and should ignore his counter.