New matchup thread being made....rejoice!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
601

I played a top Balrog last night and he basically said that I have no idea how to create momentum (while looking at me like, “you serious…why are you so bad?”).

He even made it a point to stand there and do nothing from across the screen…when I started throwing fireballs he told me “I’m standing here not really doing anything and the best you can do is throw fireballs Akuma has all these tools…demon flip…air fb…double HK which is real hard for Balrog to deal with…all this stuff…use them…if you are going to play Akuma like Ryu, then use Ryu”…then he started fighting and I got owned again trying to implement these other things.

Thing is…I thought that was the matchup…be patient hang back…throw fireballs…bait a dash punch and demon etc…

Next round he just crouch blocks and does nothing…and I couldn’t do sh*t…nothing was happening…and I realized that I really have no idea how to create momentum (and maybe part of it was due to nerves because who I was playing). I think it is mostly a charge character specific thing because I fight shotos fine.

Part of the problem may be I respect Balrogs moves too much because I can’t react to them…so i am hesitant to move forward.

He told me to watch Ed’s videos and take notes on how he creates momentum and why, so I tried and can’t really see it (not really a visual learner).

Any tips for this?

602

Huh? Actually no, Versatile. The only Akuma I have played that has beaten me consistently was ShinAkuma204 and he and I go even although we haven’t played in awhile and he actually said I was the best Sagat he ever faced although that was maybe a month ago.

He’s actually been asking to play me…but I’m always playing other people unfortunately.

I think Gouki is pretty fucking cool, but I also acknowledge how powerful he is. He’s top 3 for a reason.

Put it to you like this. Gouki is top 3 and he can’t combo into Ultra reliably. That’s a big hint as to how well made and he is and how powerful he is.

Sagat would not be able to pull that off IMO. He needs that comeback factor to claim the throne as number 1.

603

Just send me one because apparently the one I sent didn’t make it.

604

hey guys dont blame emblemlord just because he sticks with sagat
everybody was free to pick his character who he fells comfortable with

i m not a big fan of sagat too
but he s in the roster and we should concentrate more on how we can beat him than
to cry like a bitch about the overpowered sagat BS

back to topic pls there are a lot of work that should be done =)

need your gfwl nick =) loyalsol

605

I’m saying if an akuma mid screen tele’s backward and you kara ex knee he will be in the corner which is not a get up free card for akuma vs Sagat at all. (plug in most of last post here) seriously wow dude coming in to a different character forum and bitching about the tools that character has against you while simultaneously using Sagat=mega fail…

Back to the match-up discussion.

I’m having still a hella hard time against my friends viper… It seems there is nothing I do to control the air or ground or even the close range. I jump neutral he usually guesses right with his seismos as to if I will empty or air FB it I jump air FB at him he SJ HK on reaction which goes over my FB and hits me in the face. If I get close his cLKx2 sLK to cMP-> TK strings are too good and when I try to reversal dp it whiffs if I backdash/jump b,f,n I still get hit so I teleport and get sent to square 1 zoning. Seriously tough the only rounds I win are when I get a lucky sweep knockdown or throw and go for mix-up. If I play footsies or go for grab he almost always guess right with ex seismo which against him almost always ends in me getting ultra’d if he has meter.

606

tatsu > sweep

All you need it that one combo, then see how he reacts to the wakeup pressure from there and react accordingly. Viper cant handle guessing wrong vs the tatsu setups for than a few times at best.

607

Yeah if I could get a tatsu I would but seriously James is a fucking beast. I’m saying when I get a knockdown I basically get that round otherwise it’s rape city for me. I only had the opportunity to tatsu sweep maybe 5 times in 15 matches and I took it on the last 2 but damn I don’t know how to get in.

608

yes man vipers are for me the second hardest matchup
i also dont know what to do against these tk like you cant punish it
only stand there a take the chip dmg

her ex seismo is to godlike
the only thing how you can punish it is if you see it coming and do demon flip into bnb
i think viper shuts down all the zoning options akuma has

609

yes james is bomb. try not to worry tooo much about getting in, if you can, just zone and hit those srk’s when they present themselves. easiest way to get in is to work on pokes, getting the c.mk poke is a good way to get in, FADC yada yada sweep…all i gots for ya. =/ gl homes

610

Exact same as my Xbox.

611

sounds like an asshole. swift pimp slap to the face to tell him to shut the fuck up is my tip. cuz it sounds like he is just better than you. so don’t take everything he says face value. you have to zone balrog. if he is jumping your balls all day sneak a demon flip ex in there dmg, then just run away. nothing wrong with zoning balrog.

612

ryu stuffs courtesy of micky d

[details=Spoiler]First of all it’s important to understand that Akuma needs to play the fireball game against Ryu. Not just through air fireballs, but ground fireballs as well. Though his recovery isn’t as good, he can still match Ryu’s momentum and by doing this, unlike most of the cast, you won’t get bogged down and barraged with fireballs so quickly. Using air fireballs is a good idea as well, however you can’t ever discount the idea of ryu doing a psychic jump hk to hit you before you throw it…or possibly dashing in under the fireball and sweeping you on recovery…or the dreaded super when throwing a fireball. Point of the matter is that ground fireballs are under rated in this matchup, and they are used in order to press momentum on Ryu, or possibly keep Ryu’s fireball momentum at bay.

Every knockdown must be utilized in an opportune way as well. Don’t just knockdown and give away the momentum by not doing anything. Even if you think that Ryu is going to SRK, SADC on his wakeup, it’s better to back off a bit and bait with a demon flip dive kick of some sort. Knockdowns that Akuma get are CRUCIAL to his game, and begin his amazing momentum game (lol vortex). I also believe that the vortex isn’t the best idea to do against Ryu in situations of an unteched knockdown. I remember jab shoryu beating tatsu crossup, as well as a jump in…it’s tough because safe jumps with Ryu are an exception due to his fast uppercut. All in all, knockdowns are crucial, and big damage needs to be done in order for you to control the spacing game later in the match. You want to maintain a lead and make ryu come to you through stupid decisions like jumpins which’ll give you more knockdowns and more momentum.

The matchup is about 80% fireball/zoning game really and the rest is dealing with momentum from both sides. Speaking of which, don’t teleport too often as you ryu has ways to still deal a bit of damage…such as option selecting a hurricane to catch you out of your teleport, or by throwing a hadouken during your teleport to get a slight bit of damage. Play it safe and keep cool and block, then play the zoning game again.

In the 2 matches I watched, Momochi loses to Daigo because he wasn’t aggressive enough (too much respect for Daigo?) but Yuu wins against Daigo because he WAS aggressive. Momochi played very safe and sound, however Yuu took a few more risks enableling him to combo more. Basically, calculated risks are okay in this matchup, and they are NEEDED to win, however you need to play CALCULATED and safe at the same time. Can’t just expect to land a demon flip from full screen…Which reminds me…the match is not played at full screen (contrast to most beliefs)…it’s played primarily at a 3/4th range, to footsy range due to the fireball/zoning battle.

Key points: Fireball in order to gain momentum and keep Ryu’s fireball momentum at a low roar. Air fireball from a distance, but NOT when Ryu is closer as he can punish them (not at all when he has super btw). Momentum and knockdowns need to be taken ABSOLUTE advantage of…keep that pressure on in some way, do NOT let it go completely until the momentum fizzles out, or Ryu takes it away from you. And last but not least, play safe, yet have CALCULATED risks and safe pressure. Things’ like jump in ex air hadou are good as they cover the ground and Ryu is forced to block, giving you momentum as you gain ground.
[/details]

Also, does anyone want this thread? I don’t have the time (or PC @ home) anymore to be able to consistently update this or keep up with it, nor do I really care…pm me if you want it (you’ll have to ask a mod to remove the sticky/stick yours) and ill shoot you whatever info I have.

PM! I don’t want to check back to this area of the boards… there’s a couple very reliable posters here that I would hope will take this on, you know who you are. I don’t wanna give it to someone who’s just going to do the same thing, lol. Peace!

613

loyalsol i recived your friendsrequest
you was added =)
see ya for some matches

614

You can usually find me online on the weekends. That is when I have the free time to play.

615

good to know i am a lot online bust mostly in the evening at 10 or 11 oclock
hope to see ya this weekend

616

Hope someone takes this on to get it updated soon. It’s really important to get the matchup knowledge spread and updated. The danager of using well-equipped characters without matches to worry about in fighters is that you can find yourself getting lazy toward studying matches with any kind of intimacy and share the troubles Sagat’s have in reaching greatness.

It strikes me we’re all really behind in our attitude to matches next to the Ryu forum for example. Using fireballs at 3/4 screen on Balrog to wait for rush punches/set up Ultra or whatever just seems like futile and ancient advice to me; unless a player here with a proper intimate knowledge of the matchup can speak up to reassure that it’s really all it takes.

Even in the dedicated common myth thread concerning the Zangief match, users involed exluding Adeel were all very short on specifics with their take on the match.

Perhaps it’s just that the more connected and experienced players here are comfortable in staying quiet about it as their opponents and matchup approaches evolve. I’d like everyone to make a stretch with what they know to get this all sorted and try to be more detailed with the knowledge and experience you have with it.

I’ll be meeting up with a tough London player player in the near future and should soon be able to go into some detail with a few more matches myself.

617

Ryu is a very linear character. It’s much easier to to say “do X when” with Ryu because his options are limited and his stuff is generally effective in many situations.

Akuma is a very dynamic character, who must get a read on his opponent in order to press his advantage through a multitude of options. You’re going to be hard pressed to get a “do X when” answer for many of the matchups simply because that isn’t how Akuma works. His effectiveness comes from being dynamic and and out thinking your opponent.

That’s not to say there aren’t any definite answers to many situations with Akuma, but most of those answers have already been discussed.

618

^Yes… there is no better way to explain Akuma’s play style. That is why I love him when something fails instead of trying it again you go into you giant Akuma tool set and have tons of other options.

619

True, or you do the same thing again for the hell of it, they’ll NEVER EXPECT IT.

620

Well he kinda doesn’t know what he’s talking about as far as all your tools against him while he’s just standing there. Rog’s c.hp is going to beat all of your demon flip options, as well as cross up hurricanes. also your s.hk isn’t as effective against Rog as it is against others (Sagat, Sim, Abel), ex rushes will absorb the first hit and hit you before the second comes out. Not only that but I think you need to be pretty close to Rog for both of the kicks to lock him down, at which point c.lp’s will just stuff your shit.

IMO, you have to play the match up pretty much like Ryu except you have an air fireball for him to go around. Once you score a knockdown you can start using your demon flips, cross ups, etc.