I’ll get videos this weekend. I get the reversal message, which means Idid the teleport at the first possible frame, and still get caught in blanka’s ultra.
Whoever we all want. If noone throw a character out, we’ll probably just start by going down the list…whoever is after Abel.
So yeah. Chun seems pretty laid out, I’ll update that during lunch or something…any suggestions for next char? And of course, if you think of more, just add it…i’ll eventually start going through the last 10 pages or so that I missed and adding what i find.
Edit:
confirm/deny?
This means you’re not performing a teleport, pretty simple. probably srk, fireball, tatsu or whatever is coming out instead.
I dont think it does, in a few matches i had a against a good chun, ex sbk beat it clean but also hit me for max dmg the few times i tried. A well placed regular demon flip dive kick beat it clean tho.
good to know, ill try to test when i can…
…also curious, do we care about the “contributors” part of this thread? I mean most of the info you get from someone came from someone else, which came from etc. etc…just wondering since i forgot who’s posts i took some info from…and it doesn’t matter much anyways, would be nice to not worry about…
…just lemme know. or not, i might just take it out.
looks like the demon punish on page 1 for Bison has some misinformation, and is incomplete.
guaranteed demons on bison(in addition to the ones already listed):
- blocked crusher (almost any version from anywhere. Exceptions are max distance EX crusher and max distance lp crusher)
- devil’s reverse, any version (demon right before purple hands connect)
- head stomp, any version (buffer demon into crouch, timing is most lax with c.mk. Do it right before stomp connects)
- predicted teleport on wakeup (any direction)
- blocked EX scissors
^Only two of those is guaranteed (blocked ex scissors, crusher) all others are reactionary based.
Oh and the contribution shouldn’t matter because at this point most of it is passed down information and not too much is new coming from us since the newer stuff is invented by the Japanese and we’re just observing it and giving it funny names like vortex.
Edit: Below me. Far LP crusher and reallllllly far ex crusher are not demon-able on block all else are. (like posted above me)
Added.
Lmfao, ty. my thoughts exactly.
+++++++++++++++++++
I think it’s because otherwise the list would be huge…and the number of things you can react to then demon is dependent on the player’s personal reaction time as well.
ty. I’m OCD so whenever I woulda found it later I might have kicked the cat. the cat thanks you.
I’m not sure why reactionary based demons don’t count as guaranteed. For example, if bison’s coming down on you with purple hands, you demon when he’s right overhead. You don’t need to do anything to set it up, and there’s literally nothing bison can do but eat it. So it’s a “punish” in every sense, no?
also, Duggish I don’t mean to nitpick, but you made a typo with the addition to the first post. PC is performed with lp, not lk =)
So with the blocked EX version, does it work if you block just the 2nd kick, or both, cause that would be an awesome punish.
And about the super reversal demons against balrog, I’ve gotten the reversal message against is straight one, but they’ve still jumped out of it. This has happened both times I’ve tried it on a balrog 
bison comes later we should start with viper
man this b… kills me
it seems like i cant punish her thunder knockels or what its called
she spamms the shit on me and its like i cant do nothing would be nice if we could discuss viper because shes also the next on the list =)
Wait ive only tried to punish head stomps a few times with a buffer, and it seemed he still landed on my head and nailed me. How effective a punish is that really? Does head stomp still hit you in a cr mk/hk? Or is it the timing is just really tight?
DENIED. ex sbk can beat dive kicks if done late
timing for stomp is the hardest, though still not that bad imo. You have to go straight from crouch animation to the demon. Time it so that demon comes out when stomp would normally connect if you’re standing. The lower hitbox gives you the extra few frames you need. If I have to guess, I’d say the window of opportunity is about 2-4 frames wide.
It should also work with just the 2nd hit, because it leaves bison at -8. If you kara then it should land. I haven’t tested this personally though so take it with a grain of salt.
Im prolly the only one with this problem, but I have a very hard time against Good Honda Players (my worst matchup). I can stand ground with any other character but him.
any body got anything good against him, anything I should avoid. should I turtle or rush down.
I try to mix both turtle and rush down. Demon flips can get fucked by jumping HP or Ultra. I try to keep away with fireballs but he just keeps jumping in and getting close. IDk im just fucked for some reason in this matchup.
How do you guys handle honda. Any insight would be appreciated.
Turtle dude. Pay attention to whether he has charge or not. If he does, be very careful with your useage of air fireballs. It’s not worth the damage you will take if you eat a headbutt. Use them, but use them wisely. Shift to ground fireballs when he has charge to force him to lose it.
When he has ultra meter be very careful about his light/ex headbutt set ups. He can charge immeditately after letting go and punish your next fireball if you’re within range.
at mid range st.hk and c. mk are your friend. Honda’s wake up game sucks. Get him into vortex situations. If he likes to do butt splashes either.
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Anticipate it and stand there. If he does a normal one, focus attack him on the way down and get your free damage. Use ultra demon if you have the meter.
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If he has ex meter. Jump over his head. He will land without touching you and you get some more free damage. Use ultra demon if you have the meter.
There is no reason to rush Honda down. Think about it! You have to acknowledge what your opponent wants to do with their character. Honda WANTS to be close. Why give him that opportunity on a consistent basis by rushing him down? He has trouble vs zoning. Akuma can zone, so do it lol.
Know your frame data. When you have advantage vs honda with moves like c.lp and crouching.mp you can afford to be more aggressive, but your bread and butter needs to be a defensive mind set.
Stay out of corners. If knocked down, try to teleport the opposite direction of where Honda is face so he can lose his charge.
Anti air demon is your friend. Zone him out, and use this if he wants to get cute and jump over safe fireballs. Shoryuken is anti air demon’s cousin twice removed. Tell him I said wuddup next time you see him.
Oh, and neutral jump Honda’s who spam head butts. React, don’t guess lol. If you guess, he can get you on the way down and that sucks. By the way, if you see him coming with the headbutt on your way down and you have meter, EX tatsu to stay in the air like a proper gangster should.
This match is 6/4 Akuma’s favor in my opinion, but it could also be seen as a 5/5 because Akuma’s zoning game is NOT complimented with scary enough anti air when compared to Ryu and Sagat. He also takes a lot more damage than they do.
EDIT - I put some good information on the Chun Li, Gen, El Fuerte and Gouken match ups for Akuma here
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=6934135&postcount=255
If the guy who created the topic could look over that and perhaps add to the front page I would appreciate it. It should help others.
One thing that screams outdated at me with that post is me saying Gen apparently don’t have anything super threatening after st.mk. WRONG LOL.
So yeah, st.mk is just that much more dangerous due to the s.mkxxhand slaps shenanigans. Don’t eat that.
Oh, Gen is free on wake up as far as I can tell. His invincibility frames off his DP do not kick in time for Akuma not to get a free vortex or whatever on his wake up. When he has ex meter he will escape, though. So be ready for that. If you’re REALLLY feeling yourself and your collar turned up properly(swag mode activated), maybe hard or ex demon flip ons his wake up and follow his ass all the way to the corner lol.
Ty west.
And ty versatile…kind of had me rolling after reading some of that proper gangster and swag mode… XD
prob update midday.
lmao gotcha. just make sure it’s before DA FIRST OF THE MONTHHHHHH(inside joke i think you will get).
Oh yeah, like a good suggestion I have for this thread is perhaps highlight players from both consoles who are solid with that respective character. For example, it seems a lot of people are having trouble against Balrog. I would elect my friend, DC Hustle 106, as a person to put under the vs Balrog thread as someone to fight against to get that match up down better since he is one of the better Balrogs around in my opinion.
We could highlight their tag(section for XBL and PSN) and their coast. Coast is important because a lot of people won’t play people on the opposite coast(I am one of these people).
If all of play a particular person and thye seem free(easy to beat), then we could elect to take that player off the list.
This will help add to this thread. Then we can relate to as a group due to having played good players using the character at hand.
What do you think Duggish??
edit: lmfao @ “swag mode fasho”
I’ve fought quite a bit of Honda recently (been playing against solution from #capcom - smash a bro) and I’ve found a few interesting tidbits. They may have already been stated, but if that’s the case, just take this as reiteration.
TK FB is incredibly hard for Honda to deal with when timed right. He has to change his timing to do it at the latest possible moment to trade with Akuma (a trade that is not in Akuma’s favor btw) which allows you to start empty jumping. If the opponent has no meter, TK FB can lead into a really strong guessing game in Akuma’s favor. Land throw works wonders (most people lose their charge trying do deal with the initial FB) or c.LP pressure string into throw or block (look out for EX headbutt between poke strings).
When dealing with strong Hondas, you need to look out for EX Headbutt between your c.LP, c.MP (or c.MK) pressure strings. If you are certain an EX HB is coming, you can easily block or DP it (I use EX DP most of the time, but then again, people stop using EX Headbutt once you catch on).
While Vortex is a powerful option against Honda, it becomes less effective as your opponent gets Ultra. A good Honda will be able to Ultra as you cross over with Air Hurricane and catch you before you land. Super painful.
One of the most effective options is to train Honda to block with TK Air FB’s and once you score a knockdown, use your jump whiff MK into c.LK combos (re-knockdowns). If you don’t throw anything out and try to c.LK, you’ll usually get thrown. The psychology of seeing a move coming out makes people second guess a throw attempt.
DP+K,K Dive Kick beats a LOT of Honda’s stuff. I’ve seen it beat Ultra (not consistently) and most Headbutts. It’s especially effective in corner where you can whiff Demon Palm to c.LK or throw. Or you can Dive Kick, wait, throw. Or combo if it connects.
All of that being said, this match is still quite challenging for Akuma. One wrong mistake and you lose a ridiculous amount of health due to no-charge combos (hands into RH). I’ve personally had far more success running away / zoning with air FB’s than I have with rushing Honda down. You can’t really afford to make any mistakes because you are always just 1 hit away from taking 1/3rd damage.
Good shit, I’ll be updating Honda, Chun (a bit more), Fuerte (HK, son.), Gouken, Gen, and any others I find good posts on digging through this…
…lmao everytime i read a section i plan to update, i laugh at the data that’s there…fucking funny. pre-EVO crap.
Thanks to all who are answering the call, for now I vote we start that C.Viper talk? She’s hard to AA demon with the random burning kicks…and a good viper WILL get you with that ultra and its millions of ways to combo into it…