to be honest i don’t think the change to Rachel will stay that way ( i hope 
) theirs still going to be other beta test
I think they originally intended for her to be a zoning character with some heavy hitting strings to fall back on and it was just coincidence that she ended up having the strongest rush down shenanigans in the game with nearly impenetrable lock down in the corner. IMO they’re trying to restore the image they had for her and are completely destroying her potential in the process. :xeye:
Yeah it is pretty lame that they raped Rachael with the nerf stick
Noel’s new nerfs has me worried, the added optic barrel recovery makes the move not worth using again it seems. Also nerfing her damage more. -_-
It pisses me off they might have neutered Noel with the nerf stick and left her with nothing but faster projectiles (or projectile bursts at least) but with Jin and Arakune they appear to have taken time to try to balance the nerfing they did do with them.
it’s hard to say man. There’s a lot of system changes too. The Burst system in of itself completely changes some things about characters.
Example: Hakumen’s Mugen.
Nowadays it’s hardly practical. Anyone with a brain is gonna burst when they get combo’d by an Installed Hakumen. And nobody will ever burst out of your normal combos until they almost dead, or at a point where you’d never use Mugen anyways.
now, if someone bursts early in the first round against Hakumen, You can legitimately use Mugen in a set-up later on and contest “Watch your life drain, bitch.” Which people might do, or at least, burst earlier in the game than they do in CT.
So, Mugen kind of received somewhat of a secondary buff because of the change to the burst system (it has more practical situations where it’d be useful.)
Guard primer is also another relatively nasty, and relatively huge change too. How do we know the impact of moves that take away guard primer? We can theory fighter and guess, but we don’t know for sure until we’ve seen it in action. And we don’t know if Noel’s guard primer removal abilities suddenly give her insane badass rushdown ability, because her moves that remove primer force you to make a decision you might not want to.
Now, I don’t know that is the case for sure, it surely may not be. But we don’t know. We don’t know how any of these changes truly fit in the mold and framework of the game. When Third Strike first came out, people were claiming Twelve beats chun-li for free. We know that’s a laughable argument now.
Furthermore, How bad was the balance in Calamity Trigger? It was pretty bad. But why was it bad? Well, the top 3 almost invalidate the rest of the cast pretty much. When those characters get pulled back, how compressed will the tiers become?
People are still looking at the game changes and how they pertain to Calamity Trigger. And Rachel certainly needed to be pulled back. Was all her nerfs necessary? I don’t know. does Tager look top tier from the loctests. Yeah kind of, but if he does end up top tier… I think he’d be the first grappler character to be top tier in a fighting game ever (unless of course, tager stops being a grappler character and becomes just a ‘big damage’ character who’s slow.)
Not really, Zangief was THE top tier for quite a while, and he’s still top 5 IMO to this day
But yeah, Everything is said is very valid. It’s all just a big guess, we really don’t know anything until we get the game in our hands and get to spend a whole bunch of time with it.
I mean, it’s just so weird how fighting games evolve without anything being changed or added. I used to laugh at Fei in SF4, but after watching Jwong use him in the latest tourney, I actually gave him a legitimate shot in the training room. I gotta say, I’ve fallen in love with Fei and I feel like an ass for ever saying he sucks.
And this is how long after the original launch of SF4…?
did they add invincibility to her old dm? cause i remember i did 623D with ragna and beat her out of her dm in CT…
Astaroth in SC3:AE was the best in the game… Clark in KOF97/XI and IMO also in 98UM and Goro in KOF97/98 and O.Yashiro in KOF97/98/98UM is top-tier…
if tager does become top in CS and is able to close the distance faster then i’ll pick him up besides ragna… ground grab pick-up …copying Asta?
Noel has been completely reworked so comparing her to her CT incarnation is a futile effort.
No. I feel like they didn’t give it invulnerability because she had so many ways to combo into it and it gave her oki and it did tons of damage already etc. etc.
Adding invulnerability would have been so broken. lol
In fact, CS nerfed the DD quite a bit. HUGE damage nerf.
I suppose those guys could be counted as grapplers, but all those guys had other tools that made them that good. Tager has a DP, Sledge, 360’s, 720’s ect. so he’s not a pure grappler.
I think it’s a much larger feat that Gief was as top tier as he was for so long. Think about it, he has 360 and green hand. That’s it. No DP, no nothing. And Green hand is free on block, so the fact that he’s so good is pretty amazing IMO. I think it’s a good example of how a character may look bad on paper, but You Just Don’t Know until you really spend time with the game or a certain character.
I think you gonna see Zangief continue to decline in the tiers. But yeah, Fei Long has some nice frame trap stuff and decent BnB, with some nice pokes. I feel that the reason everyone’s disregarded the console characters… is cuz they’re console chars. And in the US we follow and dickride the Japanese to a fault (and since they play on arcade there’s no footage of pro japanese console char tournie play.)
Also: There’s always going to be a top tier. Someone has to be, the real question is, how big is the power gap between the highest and the lowest?
Yeah, Fei is a beast in the right hands. His FA is awesome. Some of his links are just unreal (RH.Chicken wing>st.jx2>cr.j>Rekka 0_0;) RH./EX.Chicken Wing is just sick when used correctly, awesome pokes, ect.
I think your right, I think you would see a MAJOR resurgence in console characters if console characters we’re added to japanese arcades (They wouldn’t really be console characters then, I suppose.) I mean, you’ve already seen what happens when really good american players (Jwong, Sanford, Vale, ect.) pick up console characters. Cammy was another character that I thought was unusable, until Sanford cleaned house with her at EVO. Same goes for Sakura, and now Fei. Sanford even made Rose look like an actual character!
I think the point here is, as long as a game is balanced, any character can be used at a high level in the right hands.
EDIT: Will Gief drop in the tier lists? Possibly. I wouldn’t be surprised. Tiers are just so weird, Boxer used to be upper-mid tier at best, but in the latest tier list, he’s second best next to Sagat! I just don’t agree with that, I mean, Rog is a very good characters, don’t get me wrong but to put him right below Sagat is insane. I think it’s because Rog has seen a major jump in popularity in America, and even Japan! Japanese used to NEVER use Rog (Evidenced by Daigo’s performance against Justin’s Rog) but I guess after EVO, the Japanese really took notice. More and more I’m seeing them use Rog, it’s pretty strange
Has anyone found any new Hakumen Videos for Continum Shift?
Eh what? No.
Noel hasn’t been completely reworked. If you want to refer to a completely reworked character see Arakune.
Noel’s normals were nerfed, her combo damage was nerfed, and her Chain Revolver and Optic Barrel gained a slight buff. Please explain how this is “completely reworking”? Noel still needs a lot of work.
Noel got new, weaker, combos to more or less replace her current one involving 6C>BC loop. Her rushdown and mix-ups have been weakened by quite a bit overall and they weren’t even nearly as stupidly safe as Rachel’s.
Noel went from high risk/high reward to high risk/mid reward at best.
Seems to me they’re putting more emphasis on drive strings for pressure. That alone I consider to be a major game changer.
Well I’m still waiting for the sensible buffs to her Chain Revolver to reflect that because as of right now, all they did was nerf her overall game without anything to really compensate. Hence, why I said she still needs work.
Oh I totally agree. Most of the cast feels totally unpolished at this point and needs to be modified. But we’ve been given subtle hints as to what direction each character is moving in.
Rachel will probably be a zoning character with a mediocre rush down to fall back on.
Noel will rely heavily on Revolver.
Tao will zone with CS2 and emphasize movement more so than combo damage/set ups. No more 6c after CH 5b/5c combos is :xeye:
I think we got a good look at Noel in the 2nd Loktest, I feel like that’s more or less what she’s gonna play like in the final version. I think the 3rd test was to just find out what nerfs are gonna stay and what nerfs are gonna go. So bottom line, I think we’re gonna see kind of a mishmash of the 3rd and 2nd test versions of Noel.
It sounds like how pokemon tiers work…as in that game it’s based around usage of the pkmn not exactly the power they posses (but it still is a factor) as there are a LOT of powerful pkmn but some are just outclassed by a better one due to better stats and moves.
going back to CS - as a Tager player (who has struggled against a LOT of opponent, I’m very happy to hear what he now has, I never saw Tager as a pure grappler…he’s like SF3 Alex. can grapple, has command throws and other tricks so he’s not fully reliant on grabs.
No, Tager is much more in the realm of a pure grappler. With a command grab super that takes a guaranteed 50% (60% for some characters) of your health, he’s in the class of Hugo and Zangief when it comes to style of character.
ArcSys also nerfed his combo damage, thus making him MORE reliant on landing grabs for damage good. They simply gave him a few new tools and fixed his block strings so that the opponent actually has to guess once Tager gets close.