New Arcade in NorCal (interest check)

For reals, i think 75 cents to 1 dollar play is not that bad, assuming we had a turn around time of about 15-20 minutes i’m alright.

But let me ask you guys a question. What would be your turn around time vs price ratio?

Wait time vs Price

0-10 minute wait = 1.00 dollar game / game
10-20 minute wait = 0.75 - 1 dollar / game
30-45 minute wait = 50 cents /game
1 hour + = 25 cents a game

Something like that, what do you feel like is an appropriate amount of time to wait for a game vs the amount that the game is being priced at. Obviously, im not gonna sit here and wait for an hour to plop down 1 buck for a game.

This type of info could help myung with how many units he needs and estimate the prices set for each units with the people playing them.

Or just do what the nickel arcades did in the late 90’s…make everything accept nickles, but like…10 nickles a play! People still think they’re pulling ahead since they aren’t giving up quarters…human nature is fucking dumb…

Honest question: why not go with quarters? Does it have to do with something concerning the coin size along with wear-and-tear on the mechanism? Or is it the psychological effect on customers using real money? IE: tokens and game cards feel like funny money, therefor they feel as though they’re spending less?

Because I would think that for a small business, to ensure that you’re not getting totally hosed on out-of-town tokens, the ideal solution would be to require real money?

It’s easier to have specials with tokens whenever you’d like to promote something like $30 worth of tokens for $20 and such, whereas if the cabinets use real money there’s no way you’re gonna give the guy $30 in quarters for $20. And then there’s the psychological part of using tokens too of course: doesn’t look like money so it isn’t!

I hope this happens. Having a good arcade in the city would be freaking awesome…

However, arcades do not make money. You’re gonna have to do something else to subsidize the cost of running this arcade… Alcohol is a good one, but I’m not sure the cost of a alcohol license in the city (I’m sure its expensive). I think the offing of some type a food would be good? SF is still lacking in a good romen place (only one I know of). Wouldn’t need to much in-terms of equipment. Anyways, best of luck to you. :looney:

Serious…? Especially with the game on console and the ability to play people online? Let’s not take into the fact that its a shitty economy. I couldn’t see people paying that on a regular basis, maybe if good comp was there… But lets be honest, are tops players gonna be there that often? Even if they were I’d rather meet up[ at someone’s house and play them for free.

That was the beauty of KSII. Pay 5 bucks, bring beer and play.

But then again I am a cheap bastard, but .75 is a bit out of whack, let a lone a dollar. :rolleyes:

Its the 21st century. Card system is cool with me. I don’t wanna walk around with 100 tokens in my pocket. That shit is retarded.

Good call on trying to find an old mix of DDR jared. That would be awesome. I used to play quite a bit on… i think 2nd mix. I think the music was way better on the older ones anyways.

Regardless of what people say, 0.25 a game isn’t going to happen. Even if someone was sitting on the machine all day 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, it’ll take a whole year to get your money back not including rent for the retail space. That’s assuming 30 games per hour and a mere 20k for one set of cabs. Vewlix cabs are like 22k each or something.

I’ve actually thought about doing this myself too, lol. I was just going to get like 6 SF4 cabs and maybe one or two other games and that would have been it until I had more money to invest in other machines.

BTW, don’t go cheap like Nickel City. That’s why they aren’t around and one that’s left has crappy games and broken joysticks.

I think they are in the six figure range. Depends on the city/county I believe.

So0oo0o true. lol

He shouldn’t expect to make any money at ALL on the arcade portion, hence why he needs something else to cover the cost of the arcade. The arcade should be a platform for some other potential revenue: food, liquor, the sale of some type of merch, anything that can actually make a profit on top of covering for this arcade. Having cheap machines (.25 or .50 per play) will bring bigger crowds than (.75 or 1.00). If he expects to make money from the machines, this project is dead where it stands, its not sustainable.

in terms of sustaining and being able to survive, I have one word: membership

before everyone gets on my case, hear me out…

  • paying members have the opportunity stay longer than casuals, thinning out the crowd an making it more competitive at a certain part of the evening (11PM-1AM?)

  • paying members would have access to ‘screenings’ where they get the chance to play a game before the public (the night before the arcade opens and the game is made available to the masses).

  • members would have access to the arcade or a room where they could all watch a live stream of an event via projector

  • members would have first chances at parts and such at the store

that’s all I could think of that’s plausible and would also feed the need that’s become apparent as of late. $20 a month would provide steady income and would be a small price to pay to support a scene and help if flourish, don’t you think?

I agree about the pricing. It was kinda tough paying a dollar when SF4 first dropped in the arcades, and a dollar is going to be ridiculous now that people have had the game at home for a long time. Plus no console characters? =\

I’d still pay .50 for SF4 and T6 for a while, though.

I see no reason why I can’t share financial information/advice with you about the MUGA. Just PM me for any specifics.

I’m not sure on the viability of a standalone arcade, but if you’re willing to try it go for it.

Location is key. Our location is successful due to a few things: we are centrally located on a college campus, we have a well maintained bowling alley (and the only one within like 30 miles), we have 10 billiards tables and we keep all machines well maintained (Matt has a hand in that).

I would look into a card system, tokens are a hassle IMO, we would switch over but our initial investment cost and our immense token inventory would be wasted.

I recommend a mixture of both fighting game specific and general public games, as it encourages players to bring their friends, family, girlfriends, etc.

Gundam’s would be cool, but I imagine their cost would be prohibitive, unless you are charging like 5 bucks a play, use them as eyecandy, or have
Gun games: Razing storm is bringing in money by the bucketloads, but our TC4 and HOD4 have both done extremely well.
Guitar/Drum/beatmania- We just got Guitar Hero and people seem to enjoy (plus it is dirt cheap in comparison to most equipment.
A dance machine (we have a PIU NX2 and PIU Pro) and they both do very well. I would prefer a mix of DDR and PIU, but DDR has really fallen off.
Inital D whatever or Maxitune.
A Stacker machine. I know you say that you don’t want any redemption games, but this thing is a cashcow and it doesn’t involve tickets. It specifically targets customers that are browsing and don’t want to play video games. Load it with strong prizes and you will make money immediately.

rant/
And with regards to the bearcade, I don’t know the specifics, but administrative staff can make terrible decisions. The MUGA is most likely going to lose considerable floor space (and our billiard tables) due to an expansion of the textbook portion of a bookstore. A bookstore. You know the kind you went to freshmen year and then realized they were screwing you and then you bought everything off Amazon (or anyone of the 1200 websites selling textbooks) for like 80% cheaper. Yes one of those. Like Matt said we are profitable, and billiards tables contribute a good percentage of that profitability as they are one of the lowest maintenance pieces of equipment possible (re-felt the tables once a year). Administrators make mistakes because it takes like 5 years to get anything implemented and by that time the implementation is irrelevant./rant

Who would pay…? Top players? Most of the tops players practice with other top players at someone’s house for free. This would be a good service to be offered for free. Not to pay.

We really shouldn’t be focusing on how to make the arcade profitable, it should be what type of business can we create that would be good to incorporate an arcade with…

And I don’t mind be the negative person in this thread, but so far from everything mentioned, I see this tanking…

I just had a light bulb moment. Get a Stacker machine and then talk to local gaming companies (or those with awesome contacts :wink:) and ask them for rare promotional items to stick in the machine. Easy, light sponsorship and free, high valued items that people would lust after.

Also, I didn’t mention it earlier, but I agree with folks who said air hockey and/or billiard tables. They never hurt… until someone hits a puck too hard :razz:

well not really related to fighting games but fighting genre. but why not have a designated area where games aren’t the main focus and other events are promoted, aka hosting boxing, ufc mma events charging a fee and maybe giving out a promotional amount of credits on teh machines as well. who wouldn’t want to watch the next big boxing match/ ufc fight and then play fighting games right after?

Hello, all. There’s been a lot of ideas and opinions kicked around this thread, so I’ll try to address the ones I saw.

On the issue of secondary income:
No doubt, this will be necessary. As much as I would love a pure videogame place to make money, all the evidence not only from here but from other operators would seem to indicate that it is at best, only slightly profitable. Certainly nothing one can call a ?career.? But hey, if it can pay rent and draw people in, that means any supplemental business on top of it is pure profit (and I’m perfectly fine with that :slight_smile: ). I have heard a few ideas for secondary incomes:

On the issue of alcohol:  
No. :)  The cost of a liquor license and losing the entire crowd under 21 I think is just too much to bear.  On top of that, people already get pretty heated when it comes to fighting games (and particularly, losing at them).  Imagine how they would be drunk.  Now imagine a whole ARCADE full of them.

On the issue of tournaments:
The size of these will be determined by the space I get.  And the space I get will be determined 	by how many people live where.  And that can only be determined by the survey. :)  But the standard of a tourney buy in with a portion going to the house (and the machines on free play) could work.  But I would also want to host amateur tourneys, or else we're just going to see the same faces over and over taking everyone's money, and the tourneys will die out faster than the 	Crocs fad.

On the issue of cafes:
Food is great.  It's profitable.  It's also a whole other can of worms in terms of permits, equipment, liability, employment, ect.  Does anyone here have any experience with running a cafe or a restaurant?  Are the rules different for a place that cooks and prepares things (like a 	Denny's) compared to a place that sells prepared stuff (like a Baskin Robbins) compared to a place that just sells sealed stuff (like snacks and gum at a newspaper booth)?

On the issue of naysayers:
You have a very important and appreciated role in this. Everyone here is eager to say ?yes yes yes? when it’s someone else’s money going on the line. I, on the other hand, need to protect mine. However, I would ask that you go one step farther. For every reason this wouldn’t work, try to come up with a way that it could work, something extra we could to to overcome that obstacle. If that obstacle is insurmountable, please feel free to say that too. If you cannot do any of that, at least please try to shoot down posts only once every 6 hours (so your points can be compacted into one post like this). :slight_smile:

On the issue of home gatherings:
I know there are a lot of home gatherings.  Hell, that's what most of the threads on here are about.  I have gone to quite a few and hosted a few as well.  But let me say that they are far from ideal.  Most people live in an apartment that can't really comfortably fit more than 5 or 6 	people, max.  Once you start getting a party of 10 or more friends coming over, and especially 	in the night when you have to close the windows because of the noise, it gets pretty 	uncomfortable pretty quick.  On top of that, people tend to have 2, 3 tvs at the most.  That means when you get 14 or 15 people over, you're stuck doing NOTHING for a good long while waiting for your turn to cycle in.  Now granted, my proposed 4 cab setup of SF4 is not going to 	mean you never have to wait, but at least you can play other games while you're waiting, or maybe even (gasp) try a new game you've never tried before.

On the issue of logistics:

On the issue of public transportation:
When it comes to public transportation, I'm the greenest hippie freak you will find.  I personally live in San Mateo, so naturally I started my real estate search closest to home, but I was bummed because San Mateo mass transit really sucks.  But I would love to be in Millbrae or some other place near a BART station so the Cal, Oakland, and east of the Caldicott folks could just hop a train and come over.  But again, the survey will tell me where the place to set up shop 	will need to be.  Also, I need to be in a relatively nicer place, because I just can't afford to spend the money on security guards and replacing vandalized stuff.

On maintenance:  
One of the main reasons I thought I could start this is because I know how to do a lot of repairs and hacks on my own.  On top of that, my pet peeve is broken controls.  Nothing sours my mood faster.  My machines will work.  That's an issue I will take PERSONALLY. :)

On payment method:
Yes, tokens have problems.  But card readers are potentially way more devastating in terms of 	loss.  If a card reader breaks down, I have no idea how to repair that.  I'd need a new unit, maybe even someone to install that (while adjustable coin mechs are relatively cheap).  And god forbid the card WRITER went down early Saturday evening.  That would mean my ENTIRE ARCADE would be closed until probably Monday morning when someone could come and fix 	it (not to mention the price of fixing it).  No... the card thing, while cool, is just too potentially devastating.  As for foreign tokens, you're right.  I'll have to try and source some tokens that are 	very distinct and get electronic coin mechs that can be calibrated to them.
   What I actually envisioned was a bar tab/pool hall model, where people could have a credit card for them or their group and whenever they wanted another $5 or $10 bag of tokens, just come to the front and show their ID.  At the end of the night, the tab would be closed out and their card swiped.  Of course cash is always accepted, but this is just a further convenience method I was thinking of.

On the issue of hours:
I think the Arcade UFO hours are spot on.  Again, that would depend on my location and the regulations in that area, but I would look to run it pretty late.

On the issue of air conditioning:
YES.  And lots of it.

On the issue of game choice:
Again, I have only put together a list of things that came to my mind. Another thing I should tell you is that all the Naomi, CPS3, and MVS games on that list are games that I already own, so they would really help my bottom line. This list is by no means final, and I might have to do another survey on game choice to find the right balance of games.

On the issue of ?classic? games:
Things like Frogger and Dig Dug?  I don't want to put games like that in because face it, people 	who are in to those games are people who don't really come to arcades in the first place.  Rather, they used to, but then they got married, had kids, and now consider it a relaxing weekend if they have enough time for a beer with their friends on a Saturday afternoon.  I think that cabinet, 	especially when compared to what that same space could be used for otherwise, is not worth it.

On the issue of easy to pick up games:
Yes. :)  For sure, I want to have a selection of beat 'em ups (I have access to The Punisher and Aliens vs Predator! :D ) and things like Metal Slug or Shock Troopers.  Space will dictate how many of those I can have.

On the issue air hockey and pool:
I would LOVE to have those tables, but again, it all depends on how much space I have.  If I have to choose between say the Neo Geo cabinet and a pool table or the like... well, I'd want to 	have some sales figures from various arcades to tell me what decision to make.

On the issue of scrolling shooters (shmups):
I LOVE these games! :)  My Ikaruga set is my pride and joy (followed by my EspGaluda board).  If the demographic is there to support it, I don't mind keeping as current and large a selection of those as the fighters.

On the issue of Gundam:
I think a few of you misunderstood which game I was talking about.  While the pod based game would be awesome, I don't have quite as much money as God, so I don't think I can do that. :)  	No, look up Gundam vs. Gundam on youtube and you'll see the game I'm talking about.  And yes, I know Gundam vs. Gundam NEXT is out in Japan (I played a bunch of it while I was there).  But try finding me a set I can buy. :)  For those of you unfamiliar with it, it really is the 	best game that no one has ever played.  I'm almost certain if you like fighting games, I can make you a convert.

  On the issue of confusing Afrolegends and AfroCole:
  My sincere apologies.  Slip of the fingers.  I have since edited myself. :)

Well, I think that’s enough for this post. I tried emailing fubarduck through his arcadeUFO website, but no response yet. :frowning: Please keep the ideas and feedback coming! :slight_smile:

-Myung

While it is true that good players will find eachother and congregate, the ‘member hours’ would appeal to the competitive players who may not have yet infiltrated a skilled clique due to lack of skill or another reason.

Perfect example: I went to sunnyvale golfland and ran into crackfiend and his crew. Now, it would have been nice I’d I could get down with those guys and kick it, but a crew in general is pretty tight-knit. I introduced myself and that was that, but to be able to hold sessions with those guys on the regular? Probably won’t happen. What ends up happening is knowledge about the game is kept almost exclusive to the respective cliques, and the community growth remains minimal. What ‘member hours’ would advocate is a gathering of people that are serious about competition but may not be as competitive as they would like versus the pro players you speak of.

I know space may also be a restriction that keeps good-player-sessions from being more inclusive and more of an invite-only event (I hear keystone is like this).

In the end, I’m thinking partially of a way for the arcade to sustain itself immediately as well as in the long run. A devoted customer base with monthly fees would provide some security in exchange for cultivating a growing niche in gaming. The end result would ideall be an area that is interconnected and interacts with eachother and the proposed arcade would provide that service.

It sounds idealistic, we can either look at japan longingly, or we can take steps towards improving our own situation.

I see what your getting at. And I agree, it would be nice for these “cliques” with competitive players to open up their sessions, hence this members thing your proposing. Am I getting that right? I just see the lack of incentive for those groups to pay (more beneficial to you then them). Which was great about keystone, me, a less skilled player getting to practice with Nor Cals greats.

If this did work, yes, it would be a great source of revenue. Just getting it “to work” is the though thing.

i wonder how many tokens will be spent on Ikaruga lol. that game is fun but ridiculously tough