ZenFire
42
Balancing a game is really really… truly… really hard. Probably because exhaustive testing is impractical. The ultimate balance can be achieved by damage tweaking. If something threatens the balance you can always reduce its damage. So, small regular revisions are needed in order to achieve this. Not a lot of people are a fan of playing a changing game. I’m certainly not. However, I would at this point in time be willing to accept a “3S: final tuned”, with maybe some bonus material to make it all worth your money. Nerfed/tournament legal version of Gil? lol. Sorry if this is too off topic, but yeah, to make sure it’s not: Genei-jin could use some stricter damage scaling or longer bar!!1!1
Kyokuji
44
Honestly, I doubt Capcom cares much about balance. I heard that people tried to tell them about some of the broken A-Groove combos in CvS2 in testing and they basically said they didn’t care.
And when you look at characters like Chun-li and Makoto in comparison to people like Twelve, Sean and Q. You can tell they really weren’t thinking a lot of their decisions through. I mean all Q really is, is a much slower version of Makoto with better defense rating.
epsilon
45
well, perhaps they did. sean is obviously supposed to be bad (just from looking at frame data). i think they knew about most shit, just maybe not how powerful genei-jin ended up being.
pherai
46
Their games always end up pretty playable if they don’t care about balance. It seems to me that they try to make the characters balanced, but don’t anticipate how the mechanics of the game will look in competition.
When I talked of banning the top supers, I meant the top 3 supers (you know what they are) + Makoto’s abare tosanami. IMO it does get landed plenty on top players, I mean if you’re playing a makoto pro, and theyre in the corner, all it takes is one lucky guess and the round is over, as long as they know the 100% stunner.
Seriously, people should try running a tourney with those supers banned. I think the results would be interesting.
Meh…for me it just wouldn’t be as fun if there wasn’t that higher set of characters. Basically against SA2 Mak…dont mess with her too much when she’s in the corner, dont whiff normals unnecessarily when she has meter or hit her with real meaty shit everytime you knock her down in the corner. She could try and option parry on the wake up when she’s in the corner but that’s risky for obvious reasons. If you just dont mess with her when you knock her down that solves everything else. Jumping straight up in the air after knocking her down in the corner works because it helps you to avoid random SA2 activate and it’s easier to swat her out of it. Pretty much all the tournament Makoto players I’ve ever fought (even Japanese player Ino) switches to SA1 vs. my Ibuki. SA2 can potentially do more damage (it can become a death touch super) but it doesn’t have the options of SA1. The one Makoto player that used to use SA2 on me was convinced to switching to SA1 after watching another tourney Mak player play against my Ibuki. If people switch to the non broken super against weak old Ibuki…SA2 can’t be that broke.
Besides, Ken and Chun would be hella boring to play without their good supers any ways. Genei Jin as broke as it is is what makes Yun, Yun. His other 2 supers are nowhere near as interesting and Genei Jin pretty much nullifies any of the real useful factors of either super. Genei Jin is what makes Yun fun and the challenge to beat him IMO is fun. Yun still has issues like low stamina and bad wake up options. When Yun doesn’t have meter he’s average at best. Even Yang is better than him when he doesn’t have meter. That’s your time to take advantage of him.
The reason I like playing Ibuki to begin with is because there’s that incentive to beat down on people using that higher tier of characters. If it wasn’t for Ken, Chun, Yun being so good I would just be beating those characters using another character in the cast. Instead of overcoming immense odds (if you want to call it that) with a rarely used average at best character.
JAK
49
A couple of quick points (even though this is completely off topic…)
1)Neutral jumping post corner knockdown is not good advice. If the mak is good they can do a couple of things;
a) karakusa you for free if you don't stick an attack out
b)parry your attack karakusa or straight s.fp (range/character specific)
c) wakeup dash under and take the superior positioning you just gave them...
2)Ino pretty much plays sa1 exclusively from what I have seen…
Well under the situation where you have to do something I say it’s not bad to neutral jump. The best idea would be to simply just block and wait for a move or just get the fuck away from her just because a well timed grab will kill you. It’s just if you have to do something you might as well jump striaght up. It’s better than just sitting there and giving her time to think to karakusa. You pretty much always have to react against Makoto. If you let her think you’re in trouble. Neutral jump should definitely be used sparingly (if at all) but it’s a tool as far as not giving her time to think about grabbing you when she gets back up. You just dont want to sit there for more than a split second in front of her face unless you’re really working the mind games IMO. Either do something or jump away and get the hell out. You just can’t get grabbed. Especially if you’re talking about SA2. SA1 is a bit less scary if she’s in the corner since there is a longer time period where she doesn’t have super and if you bait it she loses all her momentum and can punish with jump in combo.
I think the other issue is that Ibuki has a lot of options when she neutral jumps. When I come down I have many different attacks that I can use (especially with EX meter) where even after parry karakusa really can’t be followed up with. It’s not necessarily the best idea to do it with every character but with Ibuki it’s actually pretty effective. You can mix up air chains, kunais, EX kunais (which when parried deep give her no time to really do anything) and so on and so forth.
Even if Ino exclusively uses SA1 that still helps my point any ways. SA1 simply has more options than SA2.
Oh and yeah…this got off topic a long while ago. Heh.
pherai
51
Just don’t pressure Makoto when she’s in the corner. You’ll be amazed how less often you’ll get hit by that super by just staying on your half of the screen.
Also, I gotta second DJ that I could never support banning any supers. I’d rather just try to work ways around them instead of taking the easy way out.
So I landed the following combo on crouching Yun:
123 XX Genei Jin, st HP, cr MK, st MP~st HP x 6, forward HP, MP Zeshou, st MK, forward HP (whiff Zeshou)
It did like 55% at most (19 hits, 84 dmg pts), which is actually less than the regular twin combos. Am I missing something here? I know that finisher is kinda poor but I can’t really see that combo doing 90%…
strakka
53
Which combo are you comparing it to? I get the feeling that this combo is most useful as a replacement for the standard midscreen shoulder combo, rather than the corner combo.
the combo doing 90% was probably an overestimate, but with the “true” version (123 xx GJ, cMP cMK sHP [cMK, stMP~stHP]*N, some good finisher) you should land around 4-6 more hits, and they would increase the overall damage more than what scaling would take away.
De4dEyE
56
Thank you.
Like I said, everyone a while ago, people freaking out how this combo is going to kill people in one hit are retarded. A CROUCHING shoto and this does less than 50%? Terrifying. This might replace the ground genei jin for some people, but this is hardly game breaking…
oh… then it’s not THAT good
though it could be a better midscreen
But then, why did Tackle Maeda use the combo on Pyrolee during SBO if it doesn’t give a big edge over standard combos? SBO sure is not the place to show off if it’s not worth it.
Maybe for some sort of giant intimidation factor? Or maybe they weren’t taking the U.S. team seriously?
Everyone knew he had won when he activated. The risk factor was in his favour.
then why do you still play? lol…
I agree to an extent, some shit is a little juiced up… but it’s still a playable and enjoyable game.
Yun is a Marvel character. Probably even worse. LOL.
Still love 3S. I like the juiced up part about it any ways. Keeps things hype. I guess people can sigh a bit of relief now that Keeper Jin isn’t going to bring 3S down to one playable character.
So many people complain about Yun but when it comes down to it…if you wanna play 3S you gotta learn to fight with him. There are few really strong Yun players in the US any ways. There’s one strong Yun player for every five half assed ones. If anything we should be looking to get better with Yun than complain about him. Give me a challenge. LOL. As it is I’m still more afraid of Makoto than Yun.
