i really like it, it seems a bit jittery/slow?
Please take jchensor’s post into consideration, that’s some damn good insight on how to really tighten up the good ideas you have going on.
Love the visuals:tup:
did guys make the games on http://www.spiritonin.com/
caperia fighter looks absolutely AMAZING,
its actually unreal.
Yup I made CF3, glad you liked it. Spiritonin is just me, but I hire out some sub contract work to some really talented artists for some of the character designs and music and such.
I read through Jchensor’s comments more carefully, and Joshua (the karate guy) is just as good as Buck (the cowboy) although his moves aren’t really showcased in the vid. He has a really fast push which beats regular moves wihtout causing damage, but it does force the other guy into a defensive position before they can retaliate. He also has a taunt which steals a star.
The lasso can be pretty easy to land if the other guy gives you room (it’s slower than all the other attacks), but in play testing it seems to balance out pretty well, Let me know what you think after you try the game a bit.
Messing with it a little bit in the story mode so far (which it and the tutorial are pretty well done). The engine seems comparable to a boxing style game than a more traditional fighter.
Joshua’s Push is a little better than it seems since it’s high priority, pretty fast, and slightly speeds up the next attack. Still, it should do a miniscule amount of damage since his other special does no damage and is pretty slow. In some situations you can combo into a Taunt since enemies only recover from hitstun if you attack again and the Taunt isn’t actually an attack. Seems most likely to happen after you and the opponent repeatedly block each other since the attacks speed up and increase hitstun. At the same time, you’ll probably never get a Taunt off during most play sessions. The Taunt should either be slightly faster or it needs an effect similar to the Push in that it speeds up the next attack. Joshua could really use another normal attack so that Attack and Forward/Back + Attack work/aim differently like jchensor said. So far Joshua is very much the Ryu or Guile of the game–solid in his own right but he lacks anything exploitable.
Buck seems like a scrub-killer. Lasso prevents any sort of backstepping while the Headbutt is the type move Joshua wants in his arsenal. While the Lasso is unsafe up close, you may want to double check the hitboxes since there’s odd times where it seems invincible on startup. The rope itself snuffs out everything once you manage to get it out. I’d say make it blockable with maybe a tiny speed boost as compensation. I’d say make it a low block solely for the animation purpose of having the opponent duck the lasso (since there is no manual ducking animation).
Duff (fat guy) seems surprisingly powerful once you get used to him. His jab special seems even more useful for counterhitting than Headbutt since it hits mid instead of high. In a similar critique to Dead or Alive, his mid-counter’s activation window needs shorter duration on recovery. As long as you are in someone’s face, you can drag a match out with repeatedly blocking then mid-counter or jab as the opponent’s attacks speed up. Then again, it only blocks one range so it’s not as bad as it could be.
I have comments/concerns with Zhong, Helmut, and Westone but I’ll hold off since I’ve only seen the CPU and I personally haven’t played as them yet.
The engine as a whole, taking into account how unique it is, seems relatively solid so far. I’d say that people should only gain stars from succesful attacks (and taunts) as opposed to successful blocks in order to encourage offense. Also, I’d say a select few specials (Push, Headbutt, etc) should be available it the Hyper mode. I’ve noticed that when you activate a Hyper you auto-teleport into the opponent’s face. While I was originally against it, it’s actually a good idea. I’d say that it requires one key engine change–if an opponent is commited to a move (like Westone’s taser), the first hit of the Hyper can not be blocked. The same should also happen if you win in a Hyper duel in that the first hit shouldn’t be blockable (or the duel itself does damage).
Zamuel, Thanks for the detailed feedback, very helpful.
In general our target is to have a very consistent base gameply successfully augmented by each player’s 2 special moves. The combination of the special moves is what really makes each match interesting.
IE When you play against Buck you need to stay close to avoid the lasso, but not too close so you can avoid the headbutt, or you just need to remember to always favor the high block.
So Buck works really well against someone like Westone that relies ont he long range attacks, while Duff might struggle against Westone since he doesn’t have an easy long range attack to interrupt the taser.
Joshua’s push is unblockable, and I think that makes it very interesting and we want to keep it different than Duff’s tea bag move. It would make it too cheap to have it do damage, but I think making it add more speedup to the following move would be worth trying.
You can do the taunt after blocking instead of retaliating. At the beginning of an exchange you have enough time, and in the long term strategy it is one of the most devastating moves since it potentially keeps opponents from building their hyper combo length.
Buck - I think that may be a good idea to give it more speed boost. We tried making the lasso blockable, but ended up with the current state after testing. It’s designed more as a defensive move against long range slow attacks like Joshua’s taunt or Westone’s taser and Helmut’s Haymaker. All it really does is bring the players together and give Buck a slight advantage going into a attack / block exchange.
You’ll notice that no one has a short range fast attack in more than one height (Buck has only the headbutt, Duff has only the tea bag, and Zhong only the shin kick) this makes it fairly easy to block, you just have to learn to remember the strategy against each player.
I’m not sure what you mean about Duff’s mid range tea bag move. Are you saying it is too slow or too fast? The gameplay goal of the short range fast specials is to make the other player always block that height then have to change if you throw a regular attack making regular attacks a little more useful. It also works to cancel long warm up moves like the taunt, lasso, taser and haymaker.
Please share any thoughts about the other characters, and the AI is fairly basic at this point (they don’t know how to use their special moves very well) so any critique on how that plays is also helpful.
We tried lots of variations on the stars including your suggestion, but it just took too long to build up the meter which is a big part of the game. Most matches come down to who can most effectively build up their hyper meter so that the other player can’t memorize it.
How high did you usually get your hyper meter witht he current system?
The hyper system is designed to play like the classic mind game Simon except that the player gets to enter the sequence for the other player to remember. I want to keep that element very simple and focused on memorizing and blocking the sequence.
You have a good point about the hyper duel guaranteeing some kind of hit (although it already is pretty devastating because it puts the other player one hyper behind you in building their meter) We’ll try a few options on that.
Thanks again for the detailed feedback, very useful!
My comment on Duff was the big belly counter. After messing around some more, you just need to hit him at a different height. So it’s not a problem at all. A lot of this is from me cheesing the computer–a real person would know the proper counter.
The computer does start to wreck your game with Push. Didn’t know it was unblockable so adding damage would be a bad thing. Joshua needs to be looked at more closely. I see where he can be meh or devastating depending on how he’s played.
The current star system makes Helmut broken. Block for a free star, keep blocking, hit the opponent during the ensuing blocking and attacking battle, Gatorade, continue until max stars, Hyper, repeat. Actually, since he can block mid-special, his sports drink is rather broken but the star system allows him to be S-tier. This is why meter should only build on hit (or counter) and to be honest, the sports drink should either cost a star to use or be a move that can’t be cancelled into block. As far as stars building slow, there’s a couple of options. I think that since this has a boxing style setup, make hits of different strenths gain a different amount of stars. Headbutt gets one, regular attacks get two, counterhits/hits after high speed blocking battles get three. This is just a rough idea, you’d have to figure out the exact amounts. I will say that if you correctly block an entire Hyper then should gain a star or two for that. What might also help in an attack based system for building stars is to increase the overal game speed.
Helmut’s Haymaker (Hulk Smash? Juggernaut Punch?) should never hit in a real battle. Ever. To make it more useful, either make it like Balrog’s Turn Punch (hold down, then release when needed) or like DK’s Giant Punch (obvious windup animation but cancelable then storable until at max strength)
Off to mess with Zhong now (sort of left the browser open all day). Is she 100% invincible during her teleport dash or does she merely seem that way?
my thoughts…
my biggest complaint is that the game is WAY too slow. its taking me like 8-10 minutes to finish a match. i stopped playing because i dunno if there’s a pause button, but i gotta go piss.
i made it to the point where i played buck, but seriously, i feel as if i’ve played it enough to validate that blocking is far superior to attacking.
i coasted through the first section with the main character by using push probably almost 100 times a match. you need to have alot of attacks out there to speed up the game, and the push raises the speed and it doesn’t give your opponent stars.
stars are where this game breaks down from someone who’s played alot of fighting games. not so much for the casual gamer, but here’s the strategy with the stars.
Step 1. you want to win the initial race to 5, staight up. if you don’t you’re on your heels. you want them to have less than 5 when you start it or else they’ll just counter and you’re leaving it up to a mash fest to be half way towards sealing the victory. ideally you’d want them with 0, and the main char’s taunt goes a long way towards that. then you get your first half star.
Step 2. once you get ahead, you probably don’t want to attack so much (or at all), block your 5-6 attacks and take the meter lead if you can. the speed will still be slow unless all the attacks have been blocked so far. once you get full meter, go super again. now you’ve just won as long as you can block.
Step 3. once you’re up a star, fill up your meter and then you can finally play the game: throw out attacks, let him block some, and get the speed up. push helps a long way here, as if you get someone in the corner, you can buffer thier quick attack with a block and mash push until you get the speed upto 14-15ish when you can use the push and legitimately go for a mixup.
Step 4. hold your meter. let them fill up thier stars and let them activate. then counter. now, you’re up in stars, less to mash, you win. then you get your super, they lose thier stars, and then you gain half a star.
repeat steps 3 & 4 and you’re on your way. stay up in stars and just pay attention to moves that make you lose stars (Taunts and such) and you’ll be good.
i’m assuming you are near completion with what you are going for, and i feel with what you have is okay along as you either change the speed, damage, or both.
the game needs higher speed. maybe the initial speed is “okay” but 15 or so blocked attacks until you can actually do something that won’t be blocked on reaction, especially by the computer, is rough. alot of the times i was getting hit, i was spacing out because it was 8 minutes into the fight, i was into my 80th push in the corner, and something squeaked by. the speed increase should take half, maybe even a fourth, as long as it is now to get to a playable speed.
The damage is super low. too low. the guy with syringes in his back takes a ton of damage AND he can get his life back. maybe the stars help out a bit more. but not too much. there needs to be more of a threat, especially when something is fairly easy to block.
right now, the game is too slow and you have to work way too hard to get a win, which makes it feel boring. i was kinda interested to see where the story was going, but after an hour of playing and only getting in 5 matches (and only losing one life bar the whole time) i needed to get back to doing things… maybe i slowed up and dumbed it down to that, but that’s just how i am (tester in real life too).
there’s some more technical stuff i don’t like, but that’s nothing worth worrying about. the game should do great if it was sped up a bit more and attacks did more damage. its not really fun when you spend 1 minute throwing out attacks against each other to connect finally and have it do 8-10%. its worse when you consider there’s about 2.5 life bars you gotta work through.
@subt-L: I discovered that if you refresh the page, you get more options which includes the ability to select a Quick Match (though admittedly I’ve been multitasking on the computer all day in Story Mode).
edit: Option menu has pause and speed control (lower is faster)
@Maionese: I agree with subt-L that speeding the game up would help a lot and was probably the main reason the stars built so slowly with an attacking based system. I also agree that whoever starts getting max stars first gets a heavy advantage.
edit: Messing with the speed controls so far, you might want to make one of the faster speeds default and eliminate the slower speeds altogether.
Very good feedback, a lot of points I’ll have to seriously consider.
It’s also gonna be tuff to balance it as a casual game that is still challenging for fight fans…
I can definately make the attack / block cycle speed up faster, that’s a good suggestion, but I think I need to leave the initial attack speed where it is (you can adjust it using the speed setting in the options menu)
The game auto loads the tuorial the first time you play, but it will load the main menu the next time, or if you lose.
On the star issue, you only get a star for the first block, after that I did have it so blocking loses stars if you don’t attack in between, I’ll put that back in and I think it will solve your star strategy. Also I think gaining two stars for a hit makes sense and would allow more damage without making the match too slow to build the stars.
Helmut’s punch can hit if the other player starts a regular attack when you are dashing out of range, but it may be too hard. Again it’s an easy issue to play wiht the timing, just got to make sure it’s not too fast since it is unblockable.
On Helmut I thinkt he solution is to make his drink not fill life so early in the move, I was curious to see if people would exploit that.
I will also try to amplify the auto difficulty so that it can handle more varied players on the fly without going into the options menu. I assumed the current setting would be very easy for vet fighters.
You can pause be pressing space bar, I’ll add that to the tutorial.
Zhong’s zip move is not invincible, but it does duck under high attacks.
Just wanted to throw in some things.
- Every time you hit someone, you get a star.
- You can only get one star for blocking after any hit (you or them…doesn’t matter).
- You do get one star for completely blocking a Hyper Combo.
- There is a speed setting in the options.
Now just some of my own notes.
-
I think that you should only get a star for blocking if YOU hit the opponent before the block. The current system allows the first person who blocks to get one star after any character gets hit.
-
When you completely block a Hyper Combo, I believe you should get more stars. Now, you can’t just set it at a higher number than one, or else low number Hypers are completely useless. I suggest this method. If a character completely blocks a Hyper Combo, then they should get 1/2 the stars (rounded down) that the opponent used for the Hyper Combo.
Here’s a list, just so you know exactly what I am talking about:
1 Star Hyper blocked = 0 Stars given.
2 Star Hyper blocked = 1 Star given.
3 Star Hyper blocked = 1 Star given.
4 Star Hyper blocked = 2 Stars given.
5 Star Hyper blocked = 2 Stars given.
6 Star Hyper blocked = 3 Stars given.
7 Star Hyper blocked = 3 Stars given.
and so on.
EDIT: This might be a little crazy, but I thought of something. You know how every time you do a Hyper Combo, you get 1/2 a Star added to your max? What if, during a Hyper, for every 3 consecutive hits you gain 1/2 a Star to your max as well? Then you get just a little extra for the opponent guessing wrong.
I like the game but…what i don’t like: based off the vids
[list][] you get a single red/yellow flash frame before the character does a move. this gives the opponent a change to block a move too easily, IMO. I think this should only be used in the HC’s with a smaller amount of time when seeing the flash frame of the attacks.
[] slow. just, slow. the speed really needs to be increase which could also stop all the long waiting after the opponent gets hit which is just slightly too long.
[]dialing a combo without making a custom combo is pretty lame, IMO. fighting games have really evolved and so should the gameplay. flash game or not, no one really wants to keep hitting the same shyt over and over again unless this is a kid version of “How to play Fighting games for dummies”. which brings on to my next point…
[]growth in the gameplay. what is going to keep me, a gamer who loves fighting games, wanting to keep playing your game? I know is this just the beta, but it’s something that I hope is on all developer’s minds regardless of the “importance” of your projects.[/list]
games are meant to be fun and they are also meant to be played over and over again. You’re off to a good start and i love the style, just step up what you got to a higher level, but try too hard. oh yeah, you do realize that’s Chuck Norris/Walker: Texas Ranger, right? lol.
Occasionally, if the player dies at the pool stage, the game sort of locks up and is just stuck with a lifeless body and the computer repeatedly attacking. I’ve only had this happen when I die but not the CPU so it must be an error in checking to see if the player is knocked out.
For a simple HUD fix, at the start of a match, you should flash the words “FIGHT”. The match starts rather abruptly without this visual. Also, fighter names should be over/at/around the lifebars.
WASD control needs to be implemented in the menus. Seems to be mouse only at the moment.
People would have happily abused Helmut’s drink if possible. I think a Balrog style Turn Punch would be best for the Haymaker but it should be blockable. The longer you secretly hold the button down, the faster it will come out. To balance it out (aside from making it blockable) you either can’t pull out the sports drink or can’t dash while charging (pick one).
Speed 2 seems nice while most of the other people here will probably prefer Speed 1. I agree that a slower speed is better for beginners but I’m not sure if the current speed is too slow. [edit]Yeah, you’re probably safe with making Speed 4 default and eliminating Speed 9 & 10. Match vids should be done at Speed 3.
For AI, Duff and Westone shouldn’t spam their counters multiple times in a row. Enemies should always attack when they see you use Helmut’s drink.
Zhong’s dash seems to fail against the lasso. Plus, at higher speeds, it seems to be an even greater need to make the lasso blockable.
man, when the counter was getting up to 18-19, helmuts haymaker comes out so fast i don’t think there’s a way to interrupt it. plus its full screen. there’s really no reason to fight full screen in this game, and with the blocking how it is, spacing isn’t exactly an option. BUT if you end up on opposite sides of the screen, i’d either be drinking or charging haymaker, either one works.
The fat guy’s mid counter stays out way too long. he can mid counter and do an attack, and while his shadow’s out, the reversal is still active. easily one of the most annoying characters to play against.
edit: speed 1 is crazy. super hard to keep up, but its pretty fun.
love the art style. looks like digitized stop-motion animation. i like some of the ideas in this game but it’s so defense heavy. watching that vid, there’s more blocking than hits connecting!? it just seems to me like matches would take way too long and even the casual player would get frustrated. it’s not fair for me to judge this game properly just based on the two vids you posted so that’s all i can really say. i sent you a pm to see if i can get in on this to try it out
thankx for the invite.
after going through the game and seeing first-hand how the game works I was actually impressed with a lot of things.
I still have some things Im still not too crazy about. the boxer seemed a little broken till I realized you CAN knock him out of his move. since he’s so tall, it’s a little tricky to tell if his aiming high or medium. the tazer guy is cool. his tazer is a bit annoying especially since it really doesn’t seem like he has any lag in his move. a slightly longer charge should do the trick. he also could use a lil’ more speed with his slide move. the kickboxer’s push should have a lil more range. seems as if you need to be real close for it to work. while Buck’s headbutt is nasty, and I love it. a very strong counter move or an addition after a HC or regular hit since it’s so fast. he’d be my main.
other than that, I’ve blocked like 3 full stars HC but only got 1 or three stars for doing it. you should have something “special” for the person who does a full HC block. maybe a move that could dizzy the opponent? possibly a humiliation move maybe on the lines of a borderline pimp slap?
oh yeah, where’s the slams? that actually would be great for a full HC block and to keep an opponent from continuously spamming hits.
lastly, Im not too sure which mode I was in, I think it was quick match, but I could’nt pause the match.
Jus’ watched the vid. This looks dope. Bravo!
Didn’t realize it was FULL screen or that it also speed up during the blocking battles. That sounds pretty powerful. There is one thing that counters it–Zhong’s dash. While I initially thought it was sort of sucky, it cleanly dodges both Helmut’s Haymaker and Westone’s Tazer. It still feels like it’s missing something. I know it doesn’t dodge Buck’s Lasso, but the Lasso seems to snuff anything not at point blank range.
**[edit]**I agree with Spooty’s idea of gaining stars based upon how well you block Hypers or how many cosecutive hits land.
I just thought of something, what if there was a third special for everyone where they could manually burn a star or two to speed up thier next attack(s) outside of the high speed blocking battles? It would give yet another use for stars while adding a need for more active spacing which would add to the use of Tazer, Haymaker, and Teleport (well, and Lasso but we already know Lasso is good).
I don’t think he’ll like the idea much. It seems to me that he wants the game to focus around the Hyper Combo. Basically, block battle to you get up enough stars to Hyper, then do it and get your 1/2 extra star. Once you build up enough extra stars, then it should be hard for the opponent to remember, and that is when you do damage. The only problem I see with this method is that it makes the first of the matches really slow (with low-star Hypers), but makes the end of the match go by fast, because the opponent now has less life, and you have huge Hypers to do.
I posted a new build with a few of your suggestions implemented:
-
Successful attacks now award 2 stars
-
Winning a hyper Duel does damage depending on how well you won
-
Hits do twice as much damage
-
Added Fight splash screen at the beginning of each fight
-
Blocks speed up hits 50% faster but only show speed up on integers, so the starting hitter has the advantage on speed up
-
Helmut’s drink move does start recharging until later in his animation
-
AI ramps up faster if you beat it badly
-
First block awards a star, if you block twice without attacking you get no stars, and any blocks after that without attacking make you lose stars IE if you can get in 3 attacks without having to block or getting hit you steal a star.
-
Yes Joshua is inspired by one of Chuck Norris’ characters from the 70’s
I haven’t yet toyed with the number of stars you get for blocking a hyper, I’m thinking 1 for blocking most of it and 2 for a perfect block. I think the player would be able to catch on to that.
Have fun!