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Necro mirror match is a hard. :frowning:

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REVIVAL! AHHHHHH, I promise that, for now, this is the LAST resurrection of an old Necro thread that I’ve NEVER seen (for a long time, even!).

I mostly wanna talk about match-ups ppl find difficult.

CHUN and YUN are worst (big surprise since they’re the top tier still). I think I could deal w/ Oro better if I FOUGHT him more! :frowning: :stuck_out_tongue: A good Oro player will have mastered the double-jump so you could never hit them w/ Denpa or b+hp, I think–even if they’re going for a cross-up empty-jump/attack (they might empty-jump for spacing/confusion?).

Ken: Most players agree that Ken isn’t so bad for Necro–compared to other decent characters–but it’s risky on either side of the match-up: whoever gets cornered first by the opponent with a stocked SA could be REALLY screwed. Ken can double-srk at mid-screen fairly easily (Necro has a wide hit box), and his BILLION throw setups are really scary in the corner. He has an easy double-srk hit confirm in the corner as well (off of cr.lk, st.lp for a 4-hit combo), and I’m betting that Necro’s hit box once again makes it easier to connect it than on most characters. Baiting srks doesn’t work against very good Kens: in fact, they’re more likely to COUNTER my limbs that are used as whiffs or pokes meant to touch them, than I am likely to bait the srk :frowning: Jumping seems risky cos a fast, unexpected jumping ex Hurricane can be followed up w/ the damn double-srk again w/ proper spacing/timing, I believe. If Ken jumps on Necro, though, I think he screwed himself. I have to work on more zoning w/ st.mp to control the match, but not getting predictable. I like b+mp when they start closing in on me, but I’ve been fighting many GOOD/IMPROVED Kens lately, and they are good at knowing when to dash in on me so they can start throw setups.

Makoto: I ALMOST never jump against her. I’m a jumping slut but NOT against her! I like to use more wp Denpas against her jump-ins and dash-ins than on most characters. I go for b+hp against her when she does a jump from a weird distance. HMMMM…I WONDER: maybe her Axe Kick (if not the hk Kick) would trade w/ it and I’d get a free db+hp? 'Just a thought :smiley: I also tick at her a lot w/ wp and wk cos she doesn’t have reversals :smiley: Lastly, I try to corner her and bait command grabs/Karakusas by empty jumping in or straight up (often after knocking her down into the corner, also) and then step back outside of her grab range so I can bait her tech-grab and then walk up and grab her instead (if she goes for c-grab, the range is hard to judge, in which case I’d empty-jump again and go for cr.lk, SA. I think sometimes Makoto jumps back when cornered cos w/o solid wake-up, she’s afraid of Necro’s corner-grab juggles :stuck_out_tongue: so then I could opt for early b+hp.

Chun: I’ve gotta try more cr.lp against her. I’m not sure if it has PRIORITY! (O_O) over any of her pokes/normals but it has more reach than cr.lk, right? When she’s zoning and walking back and forth, she often gets ticked away by both attacks, and I think I could hit-confirm SAs if I work on my reflexes a bit…

Akuma: NOT MANY tips here…just that I know which moves seem to work against JR Rodriguez’s Akuma, so it might work against any other Akuma :stuck_out_tongue: I like to push Akuma (JR…) back a lot w/ db+hp but now he usually seems to block them, so that doesn’t give me much more breathing room. I have to WATCH OUT more for air Hurricanes, and esp. in the corner, cos it’s a free juggle, and mid-screen, they push me to the corner. I’m too SLOW to react fast enough to determine which kind of demon flip he’ll try, except for the demon-flip sweep, which I’m now parrying and punishing (that move’s too damn risky…gotta be psychic EVERY TIME to use it), so I get air-grabbed quite a bit, and I DOUBT Denpa would stop it (if the air grab goes through it, the animation must look weird), and b+hp might whiff on it? His regular dive kick mostly seems like something to use to get in closer and set up kara throws, which scare me, cos at that moment, I’m usually afraid of cr.mk x hurricane juggles. I try to go for the backwards regular leg grab after blocking hk Hurricanes, if I look to be in position, cos any hesitation and I get dp-reversaled or thrown :stuck_out_tongue:

Ibuki/Remy: I need to play more Ibukis and Remys, PERIOD, to know how bad they really can be. Ibuki can really get me on the ropes but her low vitality often gives me a chance for a good comeback. Still, Ibuki–like Oro–can be very disorienting w/ cross-ups and generally running all around the screen to confuse me. GEE: I guess I didn’t realize how FAST Oro could be, but then again, look at the SLOW character I’m playing!

Hugo/Dudley/Alex: I used to be embarrassed to lose to ANY of them, but they can do pretty good damage to Necro and he doesn’t take damage that well either, among many characters. Use a laggy move that gets whiffed or blocked and they can punish and close in on you pretty well. I think the key is NOT to let them get that opening: control the distance/zone so they get frustrated into desperation/mistakes. It’s WEIRD that even Hugo’s slowest normals often cleanly beat Necro’s normals, but I guess it’s only fair cos otherwise he’d have no chance (not that a policy of fairness was considered for Sean when Capcom watered him down ridiculously…).

Dudley’s “small” jump (practically a small jump like CvS2’s snk grooves) and jump-in hk make it dangerous to crouch-poke him from less than half a screen away, and not to mention his cancellable st.hk is a high-priority attack (esp. against Necro, who can’t even SPELL priority :P). Getting juggled easily isn’t that big a deal, imo, but Necro gets thrown a lot in general when cornered, so he hates being cornered (unlike Makoto, Urien sometimes, etc.).

Alex can out-prioritize Necro, but I CAN’T really explain why I ever LOSE to him O_O I think my reflexes suck, so I get command-grabbed too much when cornered and ticked, and he DOES have some range and priority on Necro w/ some pokes.

12: picking SAI is pretty much essential, YET, when you don’t have meter, he tries to air-dash in all the time w/ random jump-in normals to poke or set up his great, regular throw. Even for good 12 players, I reckon being able to cancel the dash into a poke is tricky if you’re also moving around the screen, so he doesn’t when to try to land and dash again. I like Denpa of varying strengths and b+hp. I will also build meter if necessary. If he’s not right on top of me, I’ll try to knock him out of the air w/ jump-back hp, more than most jumping normals.

Yang: EEEEEEK. When is it MY turn to attack! If he gets me in the corner (esp. w/ SAIII stocked), I feel kinda screwed. I gotta remember to SAI-reversal certain hits of the blocked Mantis Slash. I think this ffa player recently was doing RESETS off of SAIII when he still had 1/2 the bar left to do it again! It’s my AWFUL reflexes I blame most for having trouble w/ this match-up, but then I saw the guy beating on other players of his level too! That simultaneously made me feel better, yet more scared, if ya know what I mean! I’m gonna go out on a limb and say Yang scares me most w/ SAIII if he’s GOOD…:open_mouth: I DO see Yuns/Yangs get Snake-Fanged a lot by JP Necros, come to think of it…maybe that breaks their momentum…hmmm.

Q: It’s funny but Q is 1 of the FEW characters against whom I’ve lately felt compelled to pick SAIII: it’s not about stun vs. damage for me, but stopping his taunts! I’ve had a couple good Qs just run-away taunt as much as possible: even if I hit them w/ st.hp at the start of the match and/or get the 2-hit hp combo off them, they would try to outlast me. I actually do better in this match-up if I’M the Q player. I seldom do well w/ Q except sometimes against Necro or Dudley (occasionally Yun, if the player is playing too haphazardly; to so speak).

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This is currently among my favorite mirror matches, with Dudley (but ALL mirror matches make me nervous!).

When I play this match, the other player usually picks SAIII, but I usually go for SAI. I get to attack him pretty viciously on his wake-up but he can’t do the same. Getting him into the corner doesn’t seem too hard, and I get a lot of grabs off him that juggle into st.mp XX SAI, or I bait his back-leg grab/tech grab and do b+hp, db+hp and XX SAI anyway.

Some good Necros I play are good at parrying my long-range pokes and punishing, but I usually don’t bother doing this back, and instead focus on ground and air pressure: I kinda play spazzy in this match-up cos I’m not worried about reversals, obviously. I jump in w/ mp and mk/hk drills. I also bait throws w/ jump-in wp and then land outside of grab range, look for a throw/tech-throw attempt and do wp Tornado Hooks or do the back-leg grab to throw them into the corner. After jumping in a lot, I switch to the ground and start long-range ground pokes if the player forgets about them. I also try to jump-attack over the long-range ground pokes. I like to tick at him in the corner a lot and try to keep him from throwing me into the corner. Since Necro has a crappy wake-up game, as Necro, I like to drill-kick-pressure Necro when he’s cornered, to set up throws and punish whiffed grabs. On the other hand, is it me or Necro can’t take his own SAIII combos very well? When I lose this match, it usually seems that I died by stun. For some weird reason, Denpa seems worthless in this match–outside of a corner SAIII combo. I’m not sure if this has come up for me, but Denpa might trade w/ a hit of the drill kick? Hit trades involving juggles are weird cos then the other Necro might get to “chain” into st.hp if the trade was done w/ a wp Denpa. I DO have to be wary of getting command-grabbed, and it often happens as part of the 2-hit combo: cancelled from a b+mp.

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for me yun and chun are the worst necro match ups…
chun because any shit you do lose vs chunli poking moves…and when she have meter you are owned.
yun because the genei jin .but you can get a lucky parry or lucky shit (when yun not have meter) yun take damage badly (i pick sa3 vs him)
and when he not have genei jin you can beat some yun moves
other bad match ups for me is gouki , oro , dudley and ken

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One of the harder matchups I have had was against oro primarily due to the fact that his round house does so much. But against chun-li you have to use grab setups and really smell for those easy parry of standing fierces to db fierce her in the face and dril her in the corner.

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I edited my last, long post about problem match-ups for ppl, but forgot to mention stome stuff.

Dudley/Necro is a weird match-up cos I think the 2 characters have OPPOSITE problems: Dudley is looking for a way to get in (usually connecting st.hk x ex MGB) to try to corner Necro; Necro is trying to play keep-away since Dudley has TROUBLE getting in on characters with more range, and his range is about the CRAPPIEST in the game, I’d say. He has some good pokes and some of those normals are good for whiffing, but he barely has anything to pressure players to low-parry or block low. Dudley can turn the tide off 1 st.hk or parry (parry into st.hk, e.g.), but Necro has to try to control the match the whole time. Either way, it’s kinda tough. I think “Duds” has to appear too fast for Necro to confuse and outzone.

Q tries to outlast Necro w/ taunts. Often during the 1st round, it seems worth it to try to get 3 taunts right away: the 3rd taunt might be punished w/ b+hp, db+hp that pushes him into the corner, but after that, it becomes a lot easier/safer for Q to turtle, and that really puts the pressure on Necro. Q sucks and has too many disadvantages, but I feel that Necro and Dudley are among his easier match-ups (not in his favor necessarily, but somewhat easier than most).

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'Yeah…if you EVER needed to get someone in the corner badly, it’s Chun, and maybe Yun. I wonder how often ppl are trying to super-jump out of the corner these days, and against Necro, this seems safer than usual for opponents. You every possible positioning advantage against both -UNS (UGH!). At least they have little they can do in the corner besides wake-up (and Yun’s can be ducked, after all), so it might help to bait Chun’s wake-up (mostly to make her waste meter instead of to counter it cos it’s hard to punish for most characters if blocked, anyway). Chun doing wake-up ex SBK in the corner seems kinda desperate, but in the corner, I guess that’s usually the only time she feels that way. I go after her a lot w/ multiple overheads and, indeed, throw set-ups.

As others suggested, it’s good to try to fight her on the ground at a certain distance so she’s only within her st.hp range so you only have to high-parry, but then again, if she’s whiffing, that means she’s building meter. Before she gets meter, I want to rush her down and get an HP advantage. It’s not just her super that’s the problem: it’s her CRAZY kara-throw and tick set-ups against turtling, of course :frowning: :stuck_out_tongue:

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Hey bro :slight_smile: I’m starting to feel like Oro might be WAY up there. Urien and Makoto had been high on the list for me for a long time, but they seem like less trouble, lately. I’m wondering more and more where to put Necro on the tier lists (more for fun than importance), cos he has plenty of match-ups that are tough, at the least.

I’d say my hardest match-ups are Chun, Yun…then, uhmmm…Akuma/Oro/Yang, then maybe Ken, just cos you can’t afford to make many mistakes against him–however easy those mistakes should be to avoid. For Chun and Yun, getting them to get take damage is hard; Akuma/Oro/Yang, getting a chance to STOP BLOCKING and/or turtling is hard. Chun outprioritizes, so you have to play a “slippery”/tricky style, I call it, and against Yun, he’s fast so he’s hard to catch. It’s hard to touch Yun up close cos it seems he can CHAIN-combo (is that the target combo?) right through grab attempts. It’s also REALLY hard to chase Yun when he’s building meter for GJ: even if you DO catch up to him, it’s usually when you want to run away again.

As I mentioned recently, that helps explain why Necro has a tough time stopping Q from taunting as soon as the match starts: he’s slow and predictable from a distance, and even when I dash in on either Q or Yun at the start of the round, I could get hit during the dash/chase attempt–Q dash-punches me after faking a run-away taunt attempt, and Yun just hits me out of it w/ any number of fast specials or pokes cos he’s fast in general and thus it’s hard to predict which fast attack will hit me, and when (usually I don’t have to worry about low attacks in this case). I myself am ALSO slow w/ my reflexes, so perhaps picking Necro is WORSE for me than many other players, but hey, like everyone else, I’m working on it! :slight_smile:

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When I see her trying to go for down jab tick throws I parry that into back short standing fierce into electric snake. If not I do the qcb jab hopkick of necro’s to put them back down again. And yes definitely use db fierce on smell ex birds to take it out if not exchange (or use jab srk electric attack to combo with db fierce).

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In my opinion Ken is a bad match up because most aggressive Ken players hate getting stuck in the corner, and put pressure on you instead. If your Necro isn’t good enough, you’ll get worked by ken’s mix up kara throws and easy to connect SA3’s. When playing against Ken, you absolutely have to get him in the corner and make sure he backs the fuck off of you. If you let him corner you, you’re dead. It’s that simple.

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damn… fuck remmy

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Dagger_G is a local player at my arcade. He’s a very skilled Remy player. From my experience with him, you absolutely HAVE to parry. Since you have to pressure him you need to watch for flash kicks and parry them when you rush in. If you don’t put pressure on remy, he’ll fuck you up with discs and whatever.

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ya a basic example for his guard crush combo that he can get an easy pick from:
high/low disk, jump kick move, cr.lp/lk x2, EX disk

if you parry the first disk (or 2 if EX) and the jump kick in, you can combo in after that.

other than that, i have bad times with GOOD remmys. fuck remmy and his fairy punk ass

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It’s FUNNY how ppl say Necro, Urien and Hugo have great corner pressure mind games, yet KEN’s pretty dangerous in the corner: esp. for someone like Necro, cos double srk is too easy on him, plus a mix-up of Ken’s walk back into cr.mk XX SAIII and tick throws are SCARY. Try to jump out–eat an ex hurricane if you don’t air-parry immediately. My friend is SLAUGHTERING the competition over here, and he can beat ANY U.S. player. That might not sound like much on its own, but he hasn’t had the privilege of playing the JP players. He learns VERY quickly…he’s DAMN-smart.

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the reason ppl say that necro, urien, and hugo have good corner games is cause it takes alot of skill to do it, double srkns are easy as shit.

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Agreed. Ken may have a good pressure game, but it takes a lot more skill to pull off a victory with a lower tier such as Necro, who takes damage like a bitch. Anyone can spam srk’s and mix up high and low pokes until they can connect a c.forward xx SAIII

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i’m not used to seeing this matchup but i had trouble against another necro. mainly because of b+mp -> E. snakes from both sides, and b+lk mp -> E. snakes. lots of randomness seems to happen in the match. i’m not sure whether i should try and block string a mirror necro or adjust my baiting/fish parry high or something else. any help?

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please do this against a top player and win :slight_smile:

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i think who know control space better and have the best reaction speed win this match up …i use sa1 the most of time vs necro
when necro jump from far away you can vertical jump whit your strong and hit him if he jump near you can do denpa electricity move…if you are fast you can do sa1 vs a drill kick…s.fierce can be option parried from far away and punish whit a bd.fierce
if you think he go for a d.forward you can do a flying viper
and you can punish a snake fang in block whit other snake fang , sa1 , sa3 and s.forward
vs necro in corner game the most of the time when you go for a parry do a high parry because the mains tool for defense of necro are b.strong , b.short , throws and jump drill

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you make it sound like its hard