It’s most DEFINITELY possible. It’s not that hard…it just takes a lot of time and a lot of concentration. You have to be 100% watching for it. You don’t go “here’s my attack…oh…it hit…i’ll throw the super”. In order to do it, you already have to have the super motion done, and you focus all of your attention on the sprite. If you see the little “flash” of it hit, you smack the button. I can do it “fairly” well with c.mk with the shoto’s. I don’t do it all that often, 'cause all I need to do is screw it up once, and I eat something big. But, if I ever get it up to a higher percentage, I’ll definitely use it more. If you watch japanese tournaments, it’s sick. About 50% of the c.mk’s that get thrown from a ken player in footsie games that connect (when they have the meter) get turned into supers. It’s insanity.
That’s different. You can look at your opponent’s sprite before the c.mk actually hits to see if he starts a move or whatever, and that little bit of extra time will make it possible sometimes, depending on when he starts it.
What I am talking about is playing in training mode, putting the dummy on auto-guard, and cancelling necro’s s.mp into super on reaction. Can you do this, vapulus?
Thongboy, I’m not sure if you’re talking to me, but I have been referring to the s.mp cancel, not the b+s.mp link.
EDIT: OK well now I look stupid because vapulus deleted his post…I’ll remove the part of my post that was a reply to him.
Streak:
What is the point of linking anything if you can just cancel on reaction? The two essential skills you listed are cancelling the s.mp on reaction and linking with the b+s.mp. So why even link the b+s.mp? Is it your position that DC Chun Li theoritically loses nothing despite the removal of her c.mk link?
I don’t really play necro that often, so I don’t try for that cancel, but the cancel timing doesn’t seem that much different in training mode to me [someone correct me if I’m wrong]. I’m not talking about watching their attack to see if they throw something out before my attack hits. I watch the actual connection to see if it hits. This is the real way to hit-confirm. This way you catch something like a low attack that hits on a high-guarding opponent, and not just something you out-prioritize.
Edit: i was re-phrasing, 'cause I noticed my post made no sense, 'cause I mis-read yours.
Edit 2: I know some people that play chun on DC and don’t need the link at all. They cancel on reaction. Yeah, a link is preferred, but it’s not 100% necessary to use. You won’t be nearly as consistent as with a link (unless you’re freakisly good at it), but it’s still an option.
Back + strong has a much shorter range than standing strong, that is the point of being able to cancel standing strong on reaction. However you don’t want to do standing strong when they are in back + strong range because back + strong is almost twice as fast, not to mention easier to combo the super after since it’s a link instead of a cancel. BTW mopreme lands the cancel from standing strong every time it hits even in casual play. It’s inhuman, or just a lot of practice. 
Or a little of both. =D Man, in casual play I’m lucky to get my links solid, 'cause I don’t concentrate enough.
Sorry, Vapulus, I didn’t realize you were just editing your post. I thought I had to run and I didn’t want to look stupid so I quickly threw that in there.
Streak, I understand that s.mp and b+s.mp have different uses. What I meant is I don’t see why you would need the b+s.mp link when you can just cancel it instead(since you claimed that being able to cancel on reaction is essential to using ES as it is).
You should always use the easiest method to accomplish the same task. =)
Just because you can do it doesn’t mean you have to. Cancel on reaction IS essential to electric snake because standing strong has such good range and hits many characters (espcially ken) when they are crouching. Linking is much easier than canceling, i support using links when you can. I never said that you can’t(or shouldn’t) link off the back + strong, I said you should cancel off the standing strong.
Mopreme imformed me that back + strong, super is actually a late cancel, not a link. It’s just so late it looks like a link. Sort of like chun’s low forward on the DC. A quick check of karathrow shows that back + strong has a +2 hit advantage which is much to slow to link ES.
I would also like to see a video of random guard in training mode and cancelling necro’s electric snake on reaction off the s.strong.
Some physics textbook says that average human reaction time for a simple task like closing fingers together is 0.2 seconds. Let’s say mopreme reacts at a generous 0.15 seconds. If sf3 runs at 60 frames per second, that means that the cancel window for the s.strong must last at least 9 frames after it hits for him to cancel into super, assuming his hand-eye coordination is perfect. If he reacts in 0.12 seconds, he still needs 7 frames of a cancel window in order to react in time. The move has 1 hit frame and 12 recovery frames… can the cancel window really be that large?
In the case of the back-strong, it can be, apparently, but I highly doubt anyone possesses the reactions to cancel the vanilla s.strong judging by the hit alone.
edit: While trying to cancel the s.strong at various times close to the hit, testing on the DC suggests a VERY small cancel window. Granted, my joystick is converted from psx to dreamcast, but that lag is very small. It seems that you need to cancel into super at the exact moment the strong hits. Looking at the animation itself, you can’t cancel except the frame where it shows necro’s limb at its furthest.
In many of these “cancel on reaction” situations, looking at their sprite before the move hits will give you a little extra time, especially with ken’s c.forward. If they look like they’re still standing or doing some low-priority/out of range move when your normal’s starting to come out, it’s a fairly good idea to cancel. However, this leads to situations where you’ll be fooled into cancelling when it’s not safe, having them block at the last second. I’ve seen this happen many times, same reason you see elenas with random crouching strongs into brave dance getting blocked. They think they can cancel on reaction, but it looks more like guessing to me (whether or not they’re educated or pattern-based guesses).
On a completely unrelated note, DC isn’t a good version to test out “reaction” timing, since they have very tiny, but noticeably different timing from arcade to DC. The timing difference is large enough to turn from “reacting on hit” to “guessing like a scrub” for some moves. JFYI.
i don’t late cancel. i guess like a scrub. for every super.
ken dash in low forward xx super >>>> you.
Are you positive of the veracity of that frame data? There is definitely a period of time–in which you can’t super–between when you can actually cancel the b+s.mp with normal timing and when you can late cancel/link it. Either it’s a link or there are two separate cancel windows(which, btw, I wouldn’t put past Capcom to do…SF3 seems to be full of bizarre stuff like this).
The two separate cancel windows thing sounds about right. Elena’s low strong and Chun’s low forward really seem to suggest this.
-Josh
I dunno whenever I throw out st. SP I’m doing QCF SP, QCF to wait and see if they get hit, but honestly its damn hard to dash around and avoid getting your ass handed to you while throwing out st. SP. sometimes I’ll accidentally get a DP cause i was walking or dashing forward beforehand.
ES really is a super for people who expect to have control of the match, and already have a good grasp of what to expect from the other characters of the game.
Since I don’t know everything I think SA1 or SA2 work better for me, since I don’t have control of the match 90% of the time. It’s just nice having Slam Dance handy when the opponent decides to play wakeup games on you.
One thing i’d like to inform is since I’ve seen one of the matches (Japan vs USA invitatational 5vs5) one thing caught my mind. One Necro player does a b.sh->st. str- ES and juggles from that. Obviously it’s possible, seeing the video again and again I found that the s. str. has a unique and a bit of an advantage than the st. str due to the reaction time. Although it’s a bit difficult due to the framework I was just wondering if this is just one of his major offensive repertoire.
Although I don’t use it much, would it be best to either use it whenever possible, or are there certain situations where an essential canceling to either a st. str or a b.fwd would be to good use? Sometimes I get the verge of doing it but don’t want to put in risk unless if there’s a good opening, which instead I’d use variant highs and lows with him whenever possible.
Any ideas?
If you’re asking about the usefulness of Necro’s b+s.lk -> s.mp, I think it is quite useful, because it gives you extra time to know whether or not to cancel into super(you see if the b+s.lk is blocked or not…it’s still difficult to do on reaction). Others in this thread hold the ridiculous view that the extra time provided by the b+s.lk is unnecessary, and that the s.mp alone can be cancelled into ES on reaction, which–again–is absurd.
I generally only use it as a zoning tool, much like Chun or Ken can do with mk or mp, respectively. When you’re poking at the opponent with any of these linkable/cancellables moves, it’s safe to input the super motion every time if you’re going to whiff anyway. The super will never come out unless you hit them, and if they’ve only just come into range when you’re doing it, obviously they’re dashing or something and it WILL hit.
With the Back+short-strong link, I usually do it only to rip up parry-happy opponents without jab srk to save them. If you stand at the edge of the range for the back+short, you can safely chain the strong in even if the short is parried and you will often out-poke their retaliation attempt. Hello free ES.
N
Heh I just realised Slam Dance Combos of Fierce turn punch, haha! Also using it after blocked turn punches works as well, since I just usually put a regular throw in afterwards.