given that command throw doesnt really offer any real oki (outside ex cmd throw) and normal throw pushes farther away (good for pushing ppl to the corner) the question is, why use command throw?
You are +8 on a quickrise HP Grab so you can get some oki.
But you use command grab in three situations.
You think theyâll either block or late tech. Command grab completely blows up late techs and obviously beats blocks while normal throw only beats blocks
Youâre out of range of their throw and think theyâll block
You are conditioning them to try and neutral jump your pressure so you can get free hits. You canât neutral jump a normal throw due to Necalliâs DP and you may be able to chase down back jumps with Discâs Guidance or CA.
Hey everyone! New here, but Iâve been a long time tournament player and Iâm happy to join in and talk some Necalli tech!
To weigh in on the command grab discussion, I agree with Teoh. Having played a lot of Fei Long (who has a 7f command grab - which in comparison is worse than Necallis cuz throws in SF4 are 3f), itâs a great tool to add to anyones arsenal who gains significant advantages by having you in the corner.
Obviously Feiâs gets you damage, but itâs only ever used on someones wakeup in the corner (minus EX). Having that threat makes people neutral jump, and when you whiff regular throw, you can dp for free. Not to mention if you play it safe an block instead, you can cr.hp their neutral jump -getting a CC most likely- and juggling for more damage/VT/another reset mixup. Command grab is great!
Uhh, the point of the command throw is to make people afraid and try to avoid it, by neutral jumping for example. And since Necalli has a DP⌠well, do the math.
Ok, now pay attention to the context in which the question was asked and youll see your response doesnât really fit.
Command grab has yet to prove threatening, a dp isnât that big of a deal either vs a nj. most people are probably going to backdash against throws.
The spacing advantage seems to be on the side of a normal throw too because it pushes to the corner and you can dash in for a meaty.
almost anything the command grab does can be done with a normal throw, unless late teching is actually viable. Btw, I wasnât asking what the point of late teching is⌠I played 4âŚ
The point is the corner. In the corner it gives the opponent 1 more option to worry about. And in a game where people have to play rock/paper/scissors on their wakeup, having an extra option in your pocket (that has a different propery than regular throw -making the escape be neu. jump) then you have more conditioning.
And backdashing on wakeup in this game (especially in the corner) is absolutely insane. Scaring someone into actually doing that = youâve won.
People are not going to backdash against throws that often because that gets them counterhit if they guess wrong. And the command grab really outranges his normal throw which gives it a big use right there, as it lets you frametrap into it rather than having to go raw. A DP lets you set up his meaty st.lp pressure which is quite scary
I mostly agree with you. Backdashing will lead to bad situations but I feel like that will ultimately be the common throw escape option.
As Necalli players, we can do cr.hp xx mk stomp as a meaty and beat everything except dp(or teleport) and block (were safe at least). This should beat a neutral jump if my understanding of the engine is correct. In fact I believe any meaty should beat nj. Feel free to correct this if Iâm wrong.
Add in the fact that fwd throw pushes them closer to the corner than a command grab and I think you can see where Iâm unsure where the command grab fits in. Why concern yourself with a nj when you get huge damage using a meaty? But as I said before, if late teching becomes an issue, the yeah the command grab is a great tool.
Youâre right, blocking neutral jump isnât the best idea. But it still stands that conditioning your opponent (with command grab) to try and neutral jump is great to get meaties.
And yeah, I was only talking about the corner too. Using command grab mid screen, like Fei Long, is never a great idea. Unless its on their delayed wakeup, in which case you get a meaty command throw that they canât tech. And quick dash up command throw is gimmicky but still better than regular grab sometimes cuz if youâre testing their reactions they might tech late and not get you. But its risky. I prefer dash up st.mk to fish for a counterhit against their throw, cuz theyâre both 5f startup.
If you have time to do a cr.hp you should do st.lk meaty instead. It leaves you at advantage and goes into a full combo while cr.hp xx mk stomp leaves you minus. Command grabs also let you do the strike/throw mixup from outside of throw range which is pretty huge.
