How safe is Necalli’s charge move? Is it relatively unpunishable if spaced correctly?
Depends how many active frames the moves have…normal versions are -6 and EX is -13 on block. So for now, I’d say no. Dunno about his final build.
From what a friend told me it’s always punishable, except in v-trigger where you can space out the lp version.
So I decided to give it a test; I set Ken as the dummy and had him reversal HP SRK on block. In V-Trigger you can space the LP version it so that it’s safe, but you have to hit with the very tip of the move. Honestly, the spacing is so precise that it doesn’t seem worth it to use it in the neutral outside of fireball punishes. You may as well stick with the stomps since the MK/HK ones are actually safe.
new nerf (i think), cr.mp and cr.mk no longer combo into mk stomp in vtrigger
also, you can no longer do cr.jab to cr.mp in vtrigger
Anyone else have disc guidance on is own being a charge move but when you do a motion version during combos it comes out without charge? Lol
Never mind I think it’s because because of V-trigger
s.HP is now a CC. That’s only like his best normal. Let’s just make it CC too LOL
with the phase 3 beta incoming, i’ve been trying to figure out all of necalli’s changes here: http://goo.gl/xzFxAZ
feel free to hit me up on twitter if you guys have any thing to add, thanks!
That’s crazy! Was everyone hit by such hard nerfs, or just Necalli?
Apparently Ryu lost all ability to air-to-ground tatsu in exchange for being positive on parry, but he’s been only getting nerfs since beta 2. Mika lost the ability to combo into TC, some combos and everything does less damage now.
in the mike ross vs cfiend I notice cr.hp being CC but it could be st.hp. Can anyone confirm it?
I haven’t played the last stress test, due to me being asleep, however does the st.hp and cr.hp CC pop the opponent up?
If so, that is actually…not that good, as you lose Necalli his big damage combo that starts with (cr)hp xx mk axekick.
Another problem might be that if it doesn’t pop the opponent up, it might push the opponent back further. SO if you cancel hp xx mk axekick, you might not get the link into cr.mp afterwards.
Did anyone test this?
No doubt when the beta starts we’ll see loads of adjustments to Necalli(nerfs).
Both st.hp and cr.hp gives that airborne CC state. I really don’t like that they added CC to st.hp, but you can now juggle after a CC cr.hp anti-air with st.hk/DP/ex Stomp depending on the range.
St.hk is now punishable on block if it isn’t spaced correctly. Kens Ex DP might even be able to punish a max range st.hk.
St.mk seems to have more pushback now. Can no longer combo st.mk -> cr.mp -> lk stomp outside of V-Trigger.
Lk.stomp just has worse range than it did before, the ol c.hp-mk.stomp-cr.mp-lk stomp just whiffs now, even in V-trigger. The range is a tad better in v-trigger, mk,cr.mp-lk stomp works in trigger, but whiffs in normal state, but the range is still worse than before even in trigger. It’s still unsafe too.
I don’t like the new CC state of cr.hp either, but you can do cr.mp- heavy stomp afterwards and it will hit meaty.
Lastly for now, wasn’t st.hp-Hk stomp a true blockstring? Because it sure isn’t now. I got srkd out of it and they were also able to jump out.
No, it was never a true blockstring, it’s always been a frametrap
what are you guys doing to keep people from pressing buttons during your pressure? right now the beefier CH setups are actually not that tight. obviously jab -> command throw can be jabbed out. the intuition is to frame trap them if you’re expecting that, but jab -> medium buttons also get you jabbed!
with that in mind, I’ve been doing c.LK, c.LP as a starting blockstring. if c.LK hits it combos into EX stomp, and if c.LP CH’s it combos into c.MP xx dash punch. using these as threats you can sneak command grab in, but it all still feels a little hollow and too SF4-y. I haven’t had the time to mess around with s.MK, c.MP or s.MP, c.MP as blockstrings which maybe do CH against mashers, but both those normals would leave you too far for command grab.
I don’t think necalli’s weak at all. super fun too. I win all on neutral, whiff punishing with c.MK xx stomp, you don’t need anything fancy at all and he has a good DP in a game where not many people do. I’m just wondering if I’m missing anything in his point blank game to make him a little stronger.
You mentioned it in your comment already, if you want to blow up buttons consistently, you’re going to want to do the beefier frame traps right now (st MK,st MK or st MK, st MP) if they’re not getting counter hit and you know they’re pressing buttons you might have to do st MK, walk up a frame or three, then st MK again and rinse repeat 'til you find that CH, every time you walk up st MK if you go straight into down+back or just back, then you’ll have enough charge time to get the st MP + Light slash follow up (Non-Vtrigger, Mode, use MP slash in V Trigger) You can also hit confirm sweep after a counter hit st MK which is pretty cool (You can get a surprise knockdown and they may not tech it, giving you the chance for a setup)
I know you’re worried about not threatening command grab, but I find command grab is best when you show that you’re not really looking for it, that way when you do finally go for it (off a blocked crossup, or a dash-in) they’re probably expecting you to do some beefy frame trap again like you did the last 4 or 5 times
@NickTanella that’s pretty much what I had in mind, and it’s why I’m not worried about the character. Just wasn’t sure if I was somehow missing some other blockstring which confirmed nicely off CH but still threatened command throw.
The backdash = counterhit changes didn’t make too much sense to me in the other betas but it makes sense now in the context of Necalli’s pressure with the hard knockdown change. If they are backdashing out, not only do you just get that space, you can also keep up the pressure if you catch the backdash. It’s kinda ugly with his other CC’s though.
What are we doing to catch people with CC s.HK? It’s too slow to be used as a canned frame trap, so it’s gonna be more like s.MK -> walk back a bit -> s.HK and try and catch the startup of one of their pokes. At least that’s my thought on that move besides the obvious DP punishes.
That’s been my take on it too, some people are transferring a habit of delay teching or delay jab from USF4 that keeps them safe if you do an immediate block string, sometimes if u get in close for a st MK and immediately do a st HK it blows that up pretty hard, but at the same time it’s pretty risky like you said…if they don’t delay then you just get hit out of that clean, but on the same token it’s very risky for them to do non-delay buttons after blocked st MK because just one more st MK will open them up…
Then the other thing is if you use st HK too close and they successfully block it, it’s definitely punishable by 3 frame moves and it’s not just at point blank range (tested in recent stress test 1.07) so it’s probably a better idea to just go for cr MP or st MK anyways lol
So, for the most part, we’re probably gunna be using it at the tip (which is a bummer because that limits the follow up potential by a lot)