You can threaten the HCBF command throw, and most of all you don’t have to guess which wakeup they’ll do. On a Slash ender if you guess backroll and they quickrise you get punished. On a sweep ender, especially if you’re reasonably close they still have to guess twice no matter their wakeup. You should only be doing this if you’re on your side of the screen, otherwise EX Slash for cornering them is best, but it’s pretty nifty. Same with ending on a Target Combo; much better oki as you’re +1/6 after a double dash and you chase down the backroll. Plus in the corner it actually does more damage than comboing into slash as you can end with a st.lk reset, LP DP for meterless damage, or EX DP for max damage.
The command throw is only a threat if they did a normal recovery, in which case its meaty. That is a very good mixup. But aside from that, unless you walk up (in which case, you can be hit on wakeup by normals) its not that good of a mixup when they do a backwards recovery. They’re simply too far away to be threatened with a grab; another annoying thing is that if they backwards recovery, and get crush counter’d by st.hp, the HK stomp whiffs because they’re too far away. That’s one annoying nuance, but my point is sure you can make them block, but the threat outside of it is still essentially a guess, in which case it isn’t much better than the slash ender. If it were the case where 1 type of okizeme covered both options and the same threats existed against both recoveries, then I can definitely see the case being made that sweep is better. Also I’m not saying you’re wrong, you could be right. My Necalli “philosophy” would be to just get the damage, corner carry and guess anyway. You can definitely be punished, but that’s the risk you take for trying to catch backrolls in the first place.
As for the target combo: I still almost never use it unless my V Trigger is about to be maxed out, and/or I’m in the corner in V trigger mode. If it’s a punish situation (eg. blocking a DP), the full punish does so much damage. If it’s not a punish situation (eg. mixing up), than it would be easier to just do meaty st.lk, st.mk, cr.mp LP slash since you have more time to confirm, pressure w/ + normals and do more damage. Its really how you want to play Necalli, do you want damage or do you want to sacrifice damage to activate VT earlier, I personally like damage. I know Kazunoko would go for the target combo every time.
So I just started playing Necalli a few days ago. Would this hypothetical set up be possible in-game? Keep in mind I’m still a scrub; don’t kill me if this is actually really stupid/has already been mentioned.
Double Reset:
J. RH > TC xx V-Trigger > cr.FP xx lp Slash(cross under) > EX Command Grab > jab > dash under > throw > oki
TC (like most TCs) is heavily negative, -9, on block and not a true blockstring. The dmg isn’t the best. Not sure why u like dash under into throw so much, seems like a waste of a good opportunity.
I didn’t plan on using this outside of a successful jump in, so in this case, it doesn’t really matter to me about how punishable it is on block. But what would you recommend after a reset then instead of dash under into throw?
You dash up after a sweep. Chases down most of the backroll.
As for the TC, if you have your meaty timing down or just mentally confirm off the CH it’s not hard to do st.lk -> TC. You’re giving up a little damage but getting better oki and it’s actually doing better damage in the corner. You don’t want to do it in a punish situation, but off a jump in or meaty it’s pretty great.
In that case u can get like double dmg if u go for max dmg with the jump in. I like the command grab into side switch meaty, u can end up on whichever side u choose depending on when u hit.
any good frame kill stuff in the corner to meaty nash with a light?
the reason i ask is this shuts down his v reversal and vtrigger thus removing his main escape options
After what? I generally find it easier to just react to their wakeup so you can do a meaty on both quickrise and backroll.
after anything
The only thing you get followups no matter the wakeup are the TC (dash dash button) and his throw (dash button or dash walk a bit button). In the corner it’s generally dash wait a tick button. You don’t really have anything that knocks down close enough and at advantage enough that you can framekill. I don’t have anything for a slowrise, but I think the CC sweep is something like dash cr.lk jump.
VT super
Quick rise:
-dash, st.lk: +3 on block, +5 on hit (meaty)
No recovery:
-dash, st. lk, dash, mk. stomp: +2 block, +7 hit, +10 CH (meaty)
Be sure to practice it in training mode though. If the initial dash after super isn’t as early as possible, your attack won’t hit Meaty and Nash can escape with v-trigger.
I have to say, Im quite disappointed by Necallis trials, I had hopes that at least one combo would be new or kinda hard
Just letting you guys know that Necalli’s safe jumps off of a crush counter sweep have changed slightly in this patch. For anybody that didn’t know beforehand, these beat invincible reversals with a startup of 4 frames or more.
Regular: forward dash , stand light punch , neutral jump heavy punch
V-trigger: forward dash , crouch light kick , neutral jump heavy punch
I wonder if any characters got any stealth nerfs/buffs. Thanks for the info, the safe jumps are now opposite of what they used to be (normal and vtc safe jumps off sweep are flip flopped).
Did they speed up his cr.lk by a frame, make his VT dash faster, change his sweep’s recovery or what?
They’ve universally changed jumps to have one more frame of startup, meaning they’re that tiniest bit slower which messes up his previous safe jumps. Luckily we don’t have to really change much to get the same result.
Ah, I thought they just moved an airborne frame for neutral and back jumps into a pre-jump frame. Good to know!
New to Necalli. Trying him out. Not the best player. I’m having a really difficult time landing CA after HK Stomp. There seems to be a really small sweet spot to actually land the CA.