Is there any normal we can punish or poke with? I feel like Nash gets to push whatever buttons they want and always beats out Bison’s.
Book has his Vskill projectile listed as even, but honestly it’s a projectile so I’m not sure how much testing they did on it. I guess we’d have to set something up in the lab to test it definitively.
hit it out of the air with st,mk if you can. usually beats it clean. test it in training mode.
v-skill is a good option against airborne special moves in general. works well against tastu’s and anything similar.
Edit: It seems everything has been covered here. I put in bold the only idea I didn’t see mentioned above.
vs Moonsault
Do not attack immediately following block as all versions of it are +.
There are a good number of options for intercepting/punishing it BEFORE you get to the point of needing to block it. Basically, use anti air options.
You can get Crush Counter with standing roundhouse. Maybe I’m crazy, but it seemed easiest against Ex MS. Of course you can meet it in the air with stuff like aerial fierce, roundhouse, etc. Crouching fierce is good too. If you have super and v trigger meter at 100%, punish the mess out of Ex MS by activating V-Trig before the kicks kick in, dash forward (puts you behind Nash), and then super.
You can also V-Skill (Psycho Deflect) Moonsault. The last time I tried this against a Nash who was using Sonic Boom > Moonsault setup the guy wasn’t mashing immediately after Moonsault. I feel like I tested this in training, but if they are mashing you will win with projectile. Don’t quote me on that. I’ll double check in training tomorrow.
This has definitely become my worst matchup. Good Nash’s are ridiculous. Every button he has is great and he moves so damn fast.
As far as I practiced on jaguar kick. You have to absorb and reflect early so that Nash can’t land and mash jab poke you. Early enough yields to hit on mash jab, a little mistimed can trade, badly timed you get stuffed outright l. Medium version
Its not even the kick that bothers me. Literally all his normals are better than Bisons. Hes just amazingly good.
Yep. I agree. I think he’s just overall really good too and zones Bison way too easily.
Dash is deceptively fast, decent anti air, air grab, probably top 3 best VReversal out of the current roster, fair amount of his normals don’t push him out as far as say if Bison was pushing buttons against him. He has good resourced attacks.
I just feel like this is a general slight disadvantaged match up.
Punishing Nash:
f+LK - cr.lp, cr.lp xx LP Blast
f+MP (overhead) - cr.mp xx MP PI no meter. cr.mp xx EX DKP 1 bar. cr.mp xx MP PI xx CA full meter.
f+HP - if close st.HP xx HK DKP, if not LK DKP or EX DKP.
Any sonic scythe - cr.mp xx MP PI no meter. cr.mp xx EX DKP 1 bar. cr.mp xx MP PI xx CA full meter.
If Nash does his teleport, wait slightly then cr.hp. You will hit him wherever he goes, behind you, above in front or above in back. If behind you confirm into VT. Your combo will look like this cr.HP VT st.HP xx MK DKP xx EX PI etc.
How do u deal with the neutral here? I feel like Nash can get right in my face with moonsault and he gets so much mileage out of a very ambiguous cross up… I’ve just started playing ranked but I do significantly poorly against nashes. Gonna upload some Nash videos so u guys can hopefully help pinpoint huge mistakes I’m making. It’s like my fundamentals get thrown out the window when I face this character
You can just walk under the moon assault if u get your timing right. Other effective options are meet it in the air or just block and look out for a throw after but most of the time people will go for a jab since its safe.
Moonsault’s not even the worse part. His forward and backdashes are good and he can zone Bison out well with some patience and keep some decent pressure on him. You’re going to have to block a lot.
yeah i can agree that this match is really about not pressing buttons. IDK why, but I have the urge to challenge EVEYRTHING when I fight Nash. Its like playing solid just goes out the window. I want to put up videos of me getting destroyed at these low ranks but I’m too embarrassed in fear that I’d lose any credibility to my posts if i showed them lol 
Fuck this match up.
When he puts a boom on screen I have no choice but to let Nash control the field. His dash speed is insane, when he’s in my face pushing buttons the only thing I can find is V-Reversal or otherwise I’m getting tick thrown.
His jump arc is maddening when he’s close (which he almost always is when he’s not throwing booms), and Bison’s jump is so floaty that Nash can dash twice before I come down. He can space himself outside of my range effortlessly while I have to walk with my cement shoes trying to position myself better, and suddenly I’m taking a bazooka knee to the face (good god that shit goes far).
I feel like I have to save V-Gauge for reversals, and otherwise get lead by the nose while Nash does whatever he wants. V-Skilling the moonsault is great and all, but not enough, especially if there’s a boom in front.
Headpress/DR gets dodged at every turn and Skulldriver gets thrown. I also feel like I have to be psychic and V-Skill or dash through every poke in order to get anywhere against a competent Nash.
I need help. Getting real salty fighting Nash players above my league.
Try messing around with DR timing it beats his down-mp AA if you do it a bit late. Ex headstomp is good against booms, normal headstomp also works but you have to get a read on when he is going to use boom. Ex-psycho ball is good all around as a getting in tool. For his dashes if you are only relying on reactions to stop them it will be a failed attemp most of the time so try to read him and try to be ready when he is in dash distance.
Does Nash have trouble with Bison’s devil reverse and head stomp shenanigans? I play Nash a bit on the side too and I’ve never been able to consistently deal with Bison’s aerial pressure.
Hey guys, I’m having problems against Nash as Dictator, heres how i feel about it from my perspective, all I’m looking for is advice because I struggle alot against any competent Nash that is familiar with Dictator’s weaknesses (slow movement, risky dashes, poor offense with little mixup potential, linear approach, poor defense options). My primary experience is against local Nashs and some decent online ones.
My knowledge of the Nash matchup is good, I play against alot of Nashs locally. I’m at the point where I have all the answers to Nashs with less experience with the matchup but against Nashs are familiar with Dictator my chances are slim.
Below are a few points I struggle with:
[list]
[] His buttons seem to be as good as mine if not better in some situations as he has normals which advance him forward that if spaced correctly don’t appear to be punishable.
[] His dash is fast, I can’t react to it like he can mine, I risk a jab or mp confirm into super just by dashing into him. If his dashing is erratic it can be hard to pin him down.
[] His neutral jump mk does a good job of stopping me from going too aggressive as it hits both sides, this makes looping back into pressure after a blocked string if approaching on ground risky.
[] He has many ways to approach, I find myself overloaded with needing to think about jump ins, normals which move forward fast, dash ins throws/normals, dash in shimmy shenanigans, sonic scythe, and moonsault slashes. Take all of that and add in the variations where he can cover it with a slow sonic boom. I feel Nash has control of 90% of the spacing game in this matchup.
[] If going up against naked sonic booms I feel like my V Skill can’t consistently compete as he has the ability to follow the sonic boom with dashing in or a special which moves him forward. Neutral jumping can be victim to dash in c.mp or dash in jump attack.
[] During pressure, both standing and wake up I need to constantly look out for V Trigger, sometimes twice per round which affects how aggressive I can go when I finally do get an opening when he has meter. On the flip side my V Reversal is slow and I can’t get him off or get away with anything even if i use meter.
[] His rush down is hard to deal with, and I am usually forced to take it because Dictator can’t re-position fast without risk. Slow V Reversal and no invincible reversal options don’t help this either.
[] He has answers to my jump ins and devils reverse in c.mp, occasionally I will win but the angle of which i attack from is usually unusual when i do. EX flash kick beats everything in the air, on the flip side my AA seems to be iffy against him, I often have to resort to jump back lp for little damage and negatively affecting my positioning.
[*] How does one deal offensive V Triggers such as a sonic boom into V Trigger where the sonic boom is positioned to hit at around the same time he side switches? I’ve been trying to block in the direction he appears in but very rarely do I successfully block, this leads into free damage often once per round, sometimes twice.
[/list]
There is probably more I’m struggling with, outside of improving my fundamentals what should my approach to this matchup be? Right now it feels reminiscent (but not nearly as bad) of Guile Dictator in SF4 where one character had an overwhelming grasp on the flow of the match thanks to the tools available to him, except this time around this character does an amazing job of opening you up and forcing errors also. My approach right now is to try and maintain pressure if he makes a mistake, but an approach relying on the mistakes of others seems like a bad idea and right now everyone around me is learning that Dictator is not very good at opening people up and forcing mistakes.
- His command normals move him forward, giving him greater range than you medium strength pokes. However they are generally slow and susceptible to counter pokes. Try buffered Shadow Axe at the edge of poke range and see if he runs into it on the start up of his command normals. Alturnatively you could try your own slow and long range pokes. DF+HP or S.HP, Its probably best to get into medium poke range where you have a speed advantage over his normals and command normals. Outside his step kick which is F+HK which is between -2 and +1 on block his command normals will leave him at frame disavantage if you block them allowing you to reverse the pressure.
- His dash is very good, alright. Its harder to react to than ours, all you can do here is work on your reactions. I don’t think dash up pressure should be a core part of any characters offense but something to be used sparingly and erraticly, which it sounds like he’s doing. Alertness and practise is all you can do here.
- Traditional neutral jump has always a great way to fish for Bison’s Knee Press and in V it also counters Pyscho Axe. You have got to be aware of this option in the neutral game and when corner pressuring your opponent (any opponent not just Nash). Psycho Axe and Knee Press have to be used erraticly to counter this. But if you know he’s inclined to use this option, reaction hell attack is your counter. If your quite close to him you may also be able to walk slightly forward and hit him with C.HP.
- All this comes down is practise. If Nash is trying to get in without Sonic Boom he should be running into a wall of pokes and anti air. Nash will concindently jump over pokes and force you to block. But if he’s randomly jumping at you in the neutral game you should be able to anti air him clean most of the time. Sonic Sycthe is not safe on block. Some of his command normals are unsafe on block and are going to be negative on block 95% of the time, they are slow and susceptible to counter pokes. Your normals at mid range are better than his. Raw moonsault press without sonic boom cover can be v-skilled. If he lands a throw he’s not going to get meaty pressure on you mid screen.
- You need to mix up your options here. If you neutral jump a boom from full screen, the Nash player is probably going to think right, next boom I’ll follow with dashes and stuff his neutral jump with my AA’s, thats when you return the sonic boom with your v-skill. You may hit him or force him to block and get huge frame advantage. The next time Nash will think, this time I’ll dash up and then jump at him to get over the v-skill. I’d try neutral jumping as late as possible here. Likewise you have this sort of meta game going against Moonsault follow ups to Boom If you V-Skill he gets a punish, but if you jump at him or use DR you can punish the moonsault. Mask your intentions as best you can. Check to see if there is a range you can return his fireball with V-Skill and not get counter poked in the process. Mix it up with just absorbing the fireball, neutral jumps, blocking and perhaps with practise dash through the fireballs. If you have V-trigger popped then you also have Knee Press to go through fireballs and a better dash to do the same. Remember Nash’s fireball is nothing like Guiles Sonic Boom in IV. He’s taking a considerable risk throwing one of these out if your at jump in range. His LP.Boom has 31 frames of recovery and 15 frame start up. He has to rely on normals to anti air as well. Its not going be an impregnable wall of Booms like Guile could do. Any patterns and you should be punishing heavily. If he’s smart and he’s being careful with his Booms he’s giving you the opportunity to close in with dash, Knee Press axe or walk forward and I don’t mean close into point blank range, I mean into poke range.
- His V-Trigger is a pain. Its does at least lose to meaties. If this is done raw with out set up, you can hold up forward to safely get out of the mix up. When its done as a mix up with sonic boom shield, I’m not sure I guess its something your can have to just learn how to deal with from experience. Ask your friends who play Nash for tips, what his set ups are and what the counters are.
- His rush down is good. You just have to take the pressure, V-Reversal his medium strength or hard strength attacks or moonsault on block to get him off. Otherwise try not getting into position to be rushed down. Ex. Head Press has 4 frames of hit and projectile invincibility, not great by any means but it might get you out of some situations.
- Don’t jump at him outside of Sonic Boom reads. Jumping should be used rarely and not as a primary or even secondary means of offense for any character. If you must go in via the air route, EX DR is probably your best bet, after that max range J.HK. Neither options great. C.HP works against raw jumps ins. Yes its not as good as Nashes AA but it still works. NJ.LK is excellent as well and you should give frame advantage to pressure him as well.
- I’m not sure if there is an answer to that other that experience and making a hard read. Ask your Nash playing freinds for advice.
Thanks Azza, that all seems like great advice, back to the grind with hopefully a refreshed mindset.